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Thread: Stick coil/spark plug removal

Created on: 08/04/11 09:48 PM

Replies: 70

Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20604

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/26/11 7:39 PM

A little OT here but I was planning to adress this issue like tonight. I think I will just use the old gasket and torque the bolts to spec. Mine was a leaker but I was quite surprised to find the head cover bolts were not a lot more than finger tight on there.

If proper torque doesn't work then I think I will grind the bolts shorter so that I won't need to use washers. Then everyone will be happy.

....and I will reduce the weight of my bike by .00000786 g. instead of adding all that useless washer weight.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/26/11 7:56 PM

So, I guess I will be putting plugs in the conventional rout, through the entire spark plug hole, head cover down to threads. The reason, I bought a compression tester and now would be the time to use it. Need to get he bike running to take a compression test so head cover will need to be on. New plugs will go in after. Prolly next spring since I will be giving the cylinders a shot of oil for winter storage. The plugs will foul on the first start. No reason to put new plugs in until after the first start.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/27/11 12:52 AM

Just a thought here Rook...IDK IF tightening them down to spec causes the bolt to bottom.If it DOES bottom,and stops turning on ya....and you STILL need to add torque...I'd be VERY VERY careful about going further with the wrench.Seriously...those bolt heads have been known to snap off.A simple job would end up being...a NIGHTMARE!!!!


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/27/2011 @ 12:53 AM *

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/28/11 7:37 PM

never thought of it like that, Green (blue). That may be the reason the bolts came loose in the first place. Maybe the threads bottom a quarter turn before they should. That would set the clicker off on the wrench but the bolt would have stopped far short of where they should.

I'll give it a try and report the results. Worst thing that could happen (if I am careful not to turn past bottom) is that the bolts will come loose again from vibes. Maybe they will stay tight and it will still leak???

Thanks for that insightful bit of advice. I will be careful.



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Grn14


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/28/11 8:56 PM

Ya...unwashered bolts are a crap shoot...that's for sure.I mean...ya...from the factory they seem to do just fine...for a while.I only know when I did mine,she had MANY thousands of miles on er...and the washer thing stopped it completely.Never leaked again(except when I took er in for the valve check...and installed(my mech did) a NEW gasket I brought with me.It leaked...as I thought it might.Washered her up as soon as I noticed it...never leaked again.So....IDK...They worked in my situation.The bolts didn't loosen up either..never.You put the washers on top of the metal deal(that round rubber thingy,then tighten).I never used a torque wrench.I only guessed at what I thought would snug it down and not squeeze the gasket TOO much.Little wave shape along the bell,worked fine.

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
10/31/11 10:42 PM

I felt the bolts make contact with something. I torqued to 70 in lbs. Spec is 87 in lbs. They seemed to turn a tiny bit past the stopping point. No, I am sure they were not stripping. I didn't want to go any tighter, nonetheless. We will see how the gasket holds up now.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/01/11 12:58 AM

Hope that gets er done for ya Rook.Probably will be fine.Did you remove the entire valve cover?If so...you did run sealant along the outer sides there right?Under the gasket before installing?

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Rook


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Posts: 20604

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/01/11 8:52 PM

No. I am reusing the old gasket which remained firmly adhered to the top of the head wall all the way around. I have a new head cover gasket but decided I would like to try to reuse the original. The leak was very slow. A single drop never hit the floor. If it does leak again, won't be a big deal, just an additional cleaning chore to keep up on....but yeah, I think the torquedown will solve it and if not, I will pop some washers under the bolts.

I see in the SM they show where to apply the sealant to those circular dips in the wall of the head. I actually bought the tube of OEM engine sealant and it was another $60 on top of the gasket. Big tube of sealant, but still... I guess I can use the sealant on the crankshaft sensor cover and when the day comes where I install the new head cover gasket. Hopefully other parts too. Hub recomended a good alternative. GM silicone engine sealant.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/02/11 1:44 AM

Ya...should be fine.What a friggin hassle removing that cover..geez...I hated that.Got to where you are now(in the pic)...called it quits.Just too involved I guess for my wants.I got everything back in there okay.Let my mechanic do the valve check.S'all good.That's excellent you can get in there and work on her like you do.Really.I've got patience for most things 14...but some stuff...no way.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/2/2011 @ 1:46 AM *

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/02/11 9:42 AM

Yeah, the 14 has been laid up for the past 4 months. missed the best riding weather of 2011 and a whole bunch of track days. If I didn't have the busa to ride, I may have turned back as well. The valve check is doable if you have a good deal of time but if you need to do the adjustment.......shiesh! Good thing these things go a lot quicker the second time. Getting the heat shield blanket out of there and the PAIR and those plastic wing heat shields behind the radiator will make working on the bike a lot less daunting and a bit lighter, too.



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KAK



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Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 761

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/05/11 9:41 AM

Grn14, did you use the OEM sealant or did you use something else?

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/05/11 12:52 PM

I didn't change mine out myself.I let my mechanic do it.He did use sealant....may have been OEM...I really don't know.Still leaked after he got done and I rode er home.That was with a new gasket BTW.

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/05/11 3:30 PM

You see in my photo those two half circle rounds in the head that line up with the centers of the camshafts?? That is where the sealant is supposed to go. They do not mention applying it to any other part of the gasket/head other than those places, 2 half circles/side.

Hub brought up a good point about sealant and threadlock in another discussion. If there is no leak from the h motor, there is no need to seasl anything. The chance of a piece of sealant coming off and plugging the oil circulation is small but better to not have to deal with it unless necessary.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/06/11 1:04 AM

Ya...the seep is only at the far left hand tip of the cover.I wouldn't do the whole thing either.Course,I wouldn't remove the cover UNLESS it was ABSOLUTELY critical.If the washer fix didn't work...then yeah,I'd probably be tryin to replace the gasket and all that.But it wasn't necessary in my case.

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/07/11 9:46 AM

Ya...the seep is only at the far left hand tip of the cover.
Same place as mine. The only reason I can think it leaks on the left and not the right is that the bike leans to the left when it sits on the side stand. Anything that leaks while the bike is running prolly burns before it can spread far....until the leak gets severe enough.

.If the washer fix didn't work...then yeah,I'd probably be tryin to replace the gasket and all that.

To just fix the leak, Yeah I agree. Seems like replacing the gasket doesn't always fix it anyway.



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KAK



Location:

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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/11/11 11:42 AM

My '79 GS1000 has similar rubber half moons. The SM says nothing about sealant being necessary but they start to leak if they get older and harden. I'd guess the same thing with the 14. I've never done this job yet but I'm thinking I'd apply a light coat of sealant all around each half moon, unless they are in so snug and no signs of leakage then I'd just coat the tops.(?)
Not looking forward to doing this job based on info around here. I've never disturbed a cam to check/adjust valves so taking off the cams and supporting the chain and all that will be new for me. At least I have the SM and can ask around here if I have a question. Things like this gasket leaking issue and what should be done to avoid it drive me nuts. Seems you can follow the procedure exactly and still not know what to expect after you button it up.
Doesn't help that there appears to me not enough room to work on things.

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Grn14


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/11/11 12:02 PM

"Seems you can follow the procedure exactly and still not know what to expect after you button it up".Yup...at least with this deal.I'd really recommend you doing the sealing thing,and also adding the washers to the two bolts(front/back)and gently tightening them down.Seriously.THIS job here IS a 50/50 thing.You don't want to do it twice.IF you were patient,you COULD do the gasket thing...without the washers,and let er run there for 10 minutes or so to get that oil flying around in there.Then set er on her sidestand and come back and check in a half hour or so.(this would be without reinstalling ANYTHING except the gasket,valve cover).You could do that.Personally,I couldn't(wait).I just went straight for the washer fix,worked fine the first time out.I definitely did NOT want to do it all over again.Never leaked after that.Was still dry at 51,000+ miles.


You see that great pic of Rook's valve cover.The leak is on the other side(left side sitting on the bike)at the front corner.Wind blast will cause it to migrate around the gasket seal in the front,and back along the side to the rear.You want to ONLY tighten the bolts on that side till you see a wave pattern beginning to develope in the gasket material you will have squeezing lower than the cover lip.You'll see it.There will be a small skirt of gasket going around the cover.You want that wave pattern going from the side at the front on back and around the rear side for about 4 inches or so.Wipe off really well under that gasket once you've tightened er down.Go ride.Come back...wipe er down again really well.(you'll be able to get your hand in there from the left side fairing opening right there).Wipe the front length off,and go around the edge to the back on the left side.After doing this a couple of times...your residual oil should be burnt off.You'll have a sealed gasket .Tightening till the wave pattern appears was enough for mine.I did not torque the bolts to spec.Nor did I try to snug em up 'really good'.I stopped when the pattern looked uniform around that side of the cover(only a MILD wave...nothing koo koo).DO NOT tighten ONE AT A TIME.You want to go back and forth front to back with these.Tighten a little,go to the back...tighten a little,you know.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/11/2011 @ 12:20 PM *

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KAK



Location:

rockandahardplace

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 761

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/11/11 12:37 PM

Grn14, thanks for the details on how to tighten but until I see the gasket I'm not sure I know what a "wave look" is and how it should look. I won't have to do this job for quite awhile based on how much I've ridden the bike so far.
The washer tip seems to be the way to go based on (I think) that no one has had a leak that's used the washers. No harm in using them I think BUT why wouldn't you still torque them per SM? Again, I haven't done this job or seen the parts but why would adding the washers make you decide to scrap the SM torque spec's and rely on how the gasket starts to show a "wave"? Not knocking your method bud, just wondering out loud.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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Posts: 15511

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/11/11 1:19 PM

Fair enough.This is why.The bolt NOW has 'less' threads available(with the washers on there).This means....tightening down to spec is going to squeeze the gasket too much(I'm only supposing here at this point).I'm assuming that the torque value is based on a 'bottoming' bolt.One that's going all the way to the stop.I could be wrong.But the problem is either....the bolts are TOO LONG and won't snug up enough even with the book spec(after the gasket has been in there for some time...not NEW).OR,the tower threads are too shallow,not letting the bolt squeeze down far enough(as the gasket wears).IDK....MAYBE Kawasaki expects guys to replace that gasket on a regular interval.I don't remember seeing that actually...but I guess it could be.I do know...my mechanic knows what he's doing.Worked on all my previous Kawasaki bikes.His reinstall of a brand new gasket did not stop the seep.I had to go in and washer the bolts.And I'm assuming being the kind of guy he is...that he book torqued the bolts.I should mention...BEFORE he ever did the valve check(and new gasket install)..it developed a seep there...MANY miles before the valve check.I did the washer fix.It stopped it until....he replaced the gasket(at my choice).I did not ask him to put washers on there..never mentioned it.I wanted to see IF the new gasket was really the fix for this deal that was hitting a bunch of owners here.The new gasket did not fix the problem.So I 'fixed' it.And yes..he did use the Kawasaki sealant on the right spots and all.I looked on the parts fiche...AFTER(like a year or so)doing the new gasket.I found they had revised the gasket in the next model year.It was not the same number as previously.They may have actually redesigned it in that time.It was a pretty big issue for em.So I can't say if later models leak or not.I suspect they do,some of em anyway.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/11/2011 @ 1:21 PM *

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Rook


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RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/11/11 7:47 PM

At least I have the SM and can ask around here if I have a question.

Hang on a while. I will have a How To written up before Spring. It is a huge amount of work. There are a couple shortcuts that can be taken. You don't need to remove the whole heat insulator blanket and I am pretty sure you could get by fine without removing throttle bodies. I would plan on having your bike out of service for a few weeks unless you can devote all your time to this. If you do not need to do any adjusting, it will not be a lot of work.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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KAK



Location:

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Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 761

RE: Stick coil/spark plug removal
11/19/11 9:53 AM

Thanks Rook. Always appreciate any help, especially when doing something the first time. I won't need to do the job for awhile.
Guess I'll understand things better when I get hands on. This whole thing about the bolts and washers and how to torque is interesting. I'm expecting things to be harder than they should be simply because there's little room to work in. But then you add these oddball things into the mix and it's just not something you look forward to.
I figure I'll do other maint' when I get to the valves. I want to buy the tools necessary and do a synch, change plugs, filter, lube everything, etc. I'll take my time.

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