Looking for some feedback to an unusual situation, and wondering if anyone else has experienced this - but first some background:
-- I ride in Colorado, and the fuel blending is a thing.
-- I try to run only 91 or higher octane, and when available, no ethanol.
-- Have had zero issues prior to this service, and went ~ 2k before I started experiencing below...
-- Recently had the recommend 15K valve adjust done at my local Kawasaki shop (was at ~ 18k miles). Quite a few were tight and adjusted to spec.
-- New plugs installed during above maintenance.

I'm running into this "issue" of some "valve float" (unsure if its the correct mechanical term), or valve ping when I get on the juice when the motor is in a lower RPM range - say 2.5k to 3.5k. This is a new response from her. I just picked up this rig in January, and I've been on her nearly every day since. All winter her performance was outstanding, as was true this spring. Then I had the valves done and did a thousand miles round trip, again zero issues. The change has happened over the past few months, and isn't terrible, but I cant help but wonder if the Summer fuel mix is causing this. My local no ethanol fuel has dialed down their octane so I haven't been using it, and have been rotating through a few local high oct providers.

After chatting with the shop they agree that its likely the fuel change is playing into this, because mechanically she seems to be running fine in all other aspects other than this low RPM goose rattle, but they haven't heard of any other ZX14eers having this problem, but then again they don't have folks riding theirs as a daily driver like I do. I'm experimenting with an octane booster additive to see if it has an effect on this.

I have also removed my experimental pre-filter thinking that it may be playing into this, but it has made no impact.

Thoughts?

Thanks for yalls time.

DT

* Last updated by: DTTyson on 8/6/2024 @ 2:24 PM *

My Gen1 didn't like a lot of throttle at low rpm but I think that's to be expected especially in higher gears. It's worth saying though, the bike accelerated smoothly from 2000 rpm even in 6th gear after I tuned the AFR. If your Gen2 did at one time, it's possible there is something going on with your fuel. I immediately suspected the valve service but it sounds like you've ruled that out.

I haven't operated my new Gen2 under 3000 rpm yet. Just to take off of and even then, I usually try to take off pretty fast. I've even avoided coasting to a stop below 3000 rpm, I grab the clutch and roll/brake. At some point, I would expect to run my new bike at 2500 rpm or even a little lower. They sure have the power to do that especially if you're gentle on the throttle. With some tuning, my experience has been that you can even whack the throttle at 2000 rpm if you really feel you need to. It doesn't make sense to have the engine wound up a lot for normal street riding.

Have you ruled out the valve servicing? Could it at least be playing a part in the problem? I can't help being sus of any work done on my bike by a shop and valve clearance adjustments are probably about the most complex routine service the bike needs. It was a first time experience for me and I took two months to do mine over winter.

What does the pinging sound like or feel like?

Here it was 94F. WOT did I do at 3,500 rpm? That's right, it pinged on open throttle and WATT do you know, it made the noise. I too ride this bike on a daily basis and when it's hot out, putt-a ping!

Hey, talk to me when it begins to turn cool out, or wrap crap out of it in the cool morning and tell me it does not make a sound.

Notice in Jan, Feb, March, April, May, then June turns summer bloom and knocks appear on the lawn like weeds. So back to a cool morning before the sun comes up, whack the crap out of it and report it knocked. No knock, then it can't be the valves, can't be the gas, has to be the ambient change, right?

Signed,
NOLTT

Rook: Its not often I have the need to goose the gas in a lower RPM, but as you pointed out, running at a high RPM in town sometimes isn't an option(my town has some low speed areas I need to navigate). Its in these areas, during this time of year, under certain maneuvers I'm seeing this response.
I haven't totally ruled out the valve service, but I consider that I've put near 2k mi since the service, and didn't have issue till recently, and that the shop has a good track record, that I am looking at other components as the cause.
The sound is what i'd consider your typical valve train tinkling when under load at the already determined rpm range. I don't hear it happen in higher rpms, nor do i feel that lull or drag in acceleration.

Hub: Man its pretty early for verbal gymnastics, but with the Olympics and all that...
Yeah, the heat has been on my mind with this too. We're breaking records here for days in the 90s, so yeah, your point is valid, but I'm leaning more toward the fuel change which, ironically coincides with the ambient temperature. But I do see it in the morning when its still in the 60, so we'll see if that's the case after some non reformulated fuel riding.
It is reassuring that you too are seeing this effect, so its not JUST MY imagination.

All that said, with a touch more interweb perusing I found this -

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11031

Interesting bit to this, albeit 10+year old data set, is that when I look at the map MY COUNTY is highlighted in green, signalling a higher RPV value for local fuels. I ride up through Wyo from time to time and I think I'll see if a tank of their good stuff changes things - I usually burn through the tank before I get back to the homefront and refuel and my riding up there is mostly highway, and I tend to ride "nice" in other states towns.
Not 100% convinced this is the answer, but I think this I'm on the right track

When it’s time to perform the valve clearance check, what are ways or steps than can be taken to ensure if the job was actually performed? Especially if they claim some were out of spec. The last time I took my 2012 to have the 15K service done, they told me all was good, I felt like I had wasted $900 for them to just look over it. Spending $900 I wanted some type of servicing done.

* Last updated by: siroht on 8/7/2024 @ 4:59 PM *

Siroht:
I try not to double thing the shop that has done me and many of my friends proper over the decade (for me, multiple for my friends), and if you noticed I stated that this issue didn't appear until i had already put a few thousand miles on the adjustment. If:
-- The issue popped right after the work I would have notified the shop
-- if it was in fact a mechanical issue due to bad service, they would have gotten it corrected asap - their words to me

However none of that is the case, and i'm going to - weather permitting - do a running fuel test to see if my hunch that the blend served to us in my area is the cause of this poor detonation.

But I do appreciate your input, as in certain circumstances it would be a valid point.

P.S.
If I were concerned with the available quality of service I'd do the work myself. :)

I think you misunderstood my questions. I was simply asking questions from those who may see this thread to find out how they ensure that the valve clearance was indeed performed on their bike, not questioning you or your trust with your local mechanic. If you have a great relationship with your shop….. that’s great because I wasn’t questioning your shop’s business integrity.

I’m closely approaching my 15K service on my 2023 ZX14R and was wondering if there were ways to determine if it was indeed performed besides a shops claim that they performed the valve cleanse check. I’ve heard many stories of people paying for service maintenance, only to later discover that it wasn’t performed. Especially when the bike is running perfectly fine before you take it in for the 15K service, and you’re only following the SM by sending it to the shop running optimally fine. With other maintenance items such as cars, it’s easy to spot if your alternator is gone bad and you need to have the shop to replace it. You can actually see the alternator and can quickly determine if it was replaced with a new one, plus you can request that they hand you back the damaged alternator. No such thing with a valve clearance check, or is there? That was all I was seeking, because I don’t have a trust relationship which the dealerships in my area, and I surely don’t have to required skills to perform a valve clearance check.

I hope you find the solution to your problem.

I did indeed misunderstand, and my apologizes.

You make valid points, and I wonder if anyone has some input on this?

IME it's never easy to trust mechanics. Ive worked with the good and the not so good, and its a shame that the few questionable ones taint the box of apples. I am lucky that locally I have not only a good Kawasaki shop with a very good record, but also one for the autos, but that's come with some heartache. I'm also fortunate that by living in a "small town" the good shops outweigh the poor, and word of mouth is a very prominent thing.
Personally I ask that all work be documented (pretty standard), and if possible with repairs, photos of the issues to back up the work needed. Granted that makes me a bit of a pain in the ass, but its my machine, and my money, so I expect them to deal with it or I'll just keep looking - which they have done.
With the exception of either being present for the work to verify their findings, or to have another shop review the work, because mechanical work is purely a matter of trust. That and some legwork on the owners end to ensure the shop doesn't have a rep of shady dealings (thanks Interweb!)

siroht,

A few ways are: Strip the bike twice so the cover is off twice. Measure each of the 16 valves before and after. The other one is to sit and watch.

The sneaky one is to ever so slightly make a mark of all 4 engine strss mounts that run along side of the top valve cover. Mark those 4 bolts somewhat that are not obvious when viewed. Say a tiny scratch at 6 o'clock at each bolt.

When assembled again, you should see each one positioned away from 6. Lift the rubber heat shield and scratch a line on 4 of the outside cam cover bolts. Those would be randomly picked up and may not be at those 4 corners.

Shoot before and after pictures before dropping off the bike. 3 proof's of evidence, meaning, no mark to begin with, the scribe shown, the dealer's position when picked up. But you'll have to strip the fairing parts off again to find out.

When it’s time to perform the valve clearance check, what are ways or steps than can be taken to ensure if the job was actually performed?

I read a story about a guy who taped a hair across the valve cover. It was still there when he got his bike back.

Unfortunately shops are less and less trustworthy. A few good ideas here on maybe how to tell, not sure there's a bullet proof way excep as Hub says to do half the job twice before and after.

The thing even about checking of they removed the valve cover type stuff, they could even do that and never actually inspect or adjust anything.

So I'm inclined to go with noise signature. It should change, at least a little.

I'd say ask for your shims but I'm sure any trash shop could give you some shims.

On the noise thing, I'm not sure at all there was a great deal of difference before and after and I believe my valves had just about settled in by the time I got around to adjusting them. Most or all of the exhaust valves were tight. A couple intakes too. All clearances were the same that I adjusted them to a couple years later. Anyway, I don't think the noise from the motor changed much after the adjustment. It still had a little mechanical tick. It always did from brand new. There's something I'm going to have to listen for in the new 14R. I haven't noticed it yet but I haven't had the fairings off either. I did notice the water pump noise as I was slowing down on the last ride. Good to hear the old familiar noises again. I like it!

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/10/2024 @ 11:01 AM *

Rook that's a fair assessment. When I did my 15k mile inspection/adjustment, IIRC I adjusted around half. And I guess Id say my "ticks" changed slightly, enough to tell a difference. But then a shop could legit do the work, and probably anyway it goes from "only 2 needed adjusted" and "every one needed adjusted" and the noise may not change sufficiently to tell the difference.

I remember this being an issue when I had my first bike in the 90s. Even then the question of "did the shop really do something for my $700?" was a question people HAD to ask.

That's why I do most of my work myself, especially autos and bike, and even home stuff the last few years.

Yep, same here. I'd rather do things myself even if it takes a long time to finish it.

400ish miles over the weekend riding around northern Colorado and southern Wyoming confirm that it DOES IN FACT seem to the fuel blend that is the cause of my low RPM valve train clattering woes.

I had to burn off my tank of Colorado summer fuel - which gave me some time to find some good stretches of Wyoming roads to test a new tank of unmolested gas. That accomplished I fueled up with the same brand and octane and was able to confirm under as close as possible to the same circumstances and altitude, temperatures and roadway that the clatter was NOT present.

And now that Ive burned that tank off, i'm going back to the ethanol free Colorado summer blend, albeit lower octane fuels and see if that helps, AND MODIFY my riding a bit. It'll be interesting to see (to me anyways) come winter time when the switch back to a higher VOC blend how this plays out.

...and no, I didnt take notes...

P.S.
HWY 130 between Laramie and Saratoga is a GREAT ride for our thoroughbreds!