Well, I bought this bike about 1 month ago and I have put less then 500 miles on her.
Anyways, i have had some fuel economy issues, so i decided to do the spark plugs. I have to say that was the most challenging spark plug change i have done in my life. OMG! What were they thinking. No space at all to get your hands in there.

Ok, now to my troubles and questions.
First and foremost, NO WATER IN RADIATOR. (Update: It was not completely empty, just about 15-20 ounces low in the radiator)I bought the bike and the guy had been driving it, so i could not really check to see if the radiator was full, but the reservoir was right where it should be, about half. In between the two lines. I was finishing up with the plugs and i thought, why not check. It is bone dry. Nothing in it at all. I stuck my finger about 3 inches down and it was totally dry.
Here is an image:


So i have to ask if this is common?
In the second image, i notice that it looks like water dripped down the side of the radiator over some time. The bike was from Seattle, so it could be just from the rain.

So do people think it is a bad radiator, or head gasket? How often do these bikes have bad head gaskets.
I am so glad i did the spark plugs this weekend. I don't really ride hard, but i am really surprised i didn't blow the engine. I noticed it was abnormally cool most of the time. I only got it warm 2 or 3 times since i bought the bike.

Now for my second question.
Is it normal for the APE chain tensioners to leak like this?

I thought it was pretty strange.
It doesnt look too horrible, but it is not great. I actually was planning on buying an APE tensioner. I had no idea it was on the bike already. Pretty cool.

Update: 4/30/11
Well, i got some water. It took under a quart to fill the radiator. So that is good news. I just could not see anything from the top. I was going to start the bike up when i looked at my sight glass.

And then i opened the oil plug.

So i noticed this condensation a few weeks ago. There has not been condensation in the sight glass before. Only in the plug that one time. Most of my trips right now have been about 5-10 minutes. It has been very rainy lately and very cold. Most days have averaged 40-45 degrees. So I was not concerned. I just thought it was condensation. I think it still is, but what are peoples thoughts? It is close to time for an oil change, so i might just do that this week.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/30/2011 @ 9:29 PM *

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NO WATER IN RADIATOR. I bought the bike and the guy had been driving it, so i could not really check to see if the radiator was full, but the reservoir was right where it should be, about half. In between the two lines. I was finishing up with the plugs and i thought, why not check. It is bone dry. Nothing in it at all. I stuck my finger about 3 inches down and it was totally dry.
Here is an image:

not good very very bad do not ride the bike until you get some 50/50 or what i use engine ice only

So i have to ask if this is common?

no and to the looks of your pic's you need a new radiator cap that may be why she is leaking

So do people think it is a bad radiator, or head gasket? How often do these bikes have bad head gaskets.
I am so glad i did the spark plugs this weekend. I don't really ride hard, but i am really surprised i didn't blow the engine. I noticed it was abnormally cool most of the time. I only got it warm 2 or 3 times since i bought the bike.

I think it may be your cap (hope and pray)you may need a new temp sensor the 14 runs hot 4 or 5 bars in stop and go traffic.

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I will go and get the parts tomorrow.
The cap was very tough to get off, well not horribly, but it felt pretty stuck on there.

Is there anything else that could cause the radiator to be completely empty?

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Well...it couldn't have been completely empty...you said it never really got "hot".Okay...so yer safe there.Add coolant,it should be fine.Fill to the neck there.Run for several minutes....let er warm up real good.Shut off.Let her cool down completely...then check again.If she's low...ad till it comes up to just below the filler neck.You MAY have to do this a couple of times...you need to be able to start the bike and watch for bubbles coming up at the cap area.So she's gotta be slightly warm,but NOT anywhere near operating temp.You can add coolant while she's idling...but only for a short time.Once she starts to get warmed up,she's gonna start bubbling over that cap unit.

Your CCT should not be leaking at all.I can't actually see where it is leaking...at the adjuster bolt,or the engine mount bolts?IF it's only the adjuster bolt...here's what you could try.Mark the thread where it's sitting now.Okay...now back the bolt out several threads.Clean the threads off there.Get a tiny bit of silicone sealant.High temp.Coat the threads right there.Screw back in to your mark.Let er sit overnight without starting.It should be fine.Okay...saw the closeup..it looks like it just needs to be cleaned off that's all.

Okay...just looked at you imageshack pics there...it looks to me like the fluid is coming from the hose(the upper).NOT the cap itself.Looks like the windflow has swirled it around towards the front of the radiator side there.That upper hose there...that looks to me like an aftermarket hose.It's supposed to be black,isn't it?Like the bottom one ?Could just be seeping out of the hose fitting under pressure.That's what I'm thinkin without actually checkin the cap fitting deal on there.There's NO coolant on the neck of that cap unit.

I would....open the reservoir.Get a good light...look in there.See IF there's ANY whitish "filmy roundish puffs" floating on top of your coolant.If so...you need to drain and flush that system.That white appearance there on the outside...hmmmm..that doesn't look quite right.It may be normal though.I've never seen that on my radiator anywhere.Only one time....there was a line of that whitish stuff going down the left side of my engine...just a small line.Under the midfairing and over the engine case there.Right after I got er.I wiped it away...it never returned.I never did figure out where it came from.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 4/30/2011 @ 2:41 AM *

So i have to ask if this is common?

Never heard that one. Plenty of people complain of heat from the 14. I have heard of sebveral instances of overflows and that could have been what caused yours to be so low.

How often do these bikes have bad head gaskets.

There is an issue with valve cover gaskets seeping oil. Mine currently does. I do not believe that gaskets could allow coolant to leak. In any case, I have never hear of leakage from gaskets.

the reservoir was right where it should be, about half. In between the two lines.

I doubt if the level of the coolant overflow tank ever changes unless you have an overflow.

This looks like the cap was leaking. Perhaps it was not put on correctly or is defective and overflowed from filler neck when the engine got hot. Prolly NOt a big deal if it was run slow afterward.

I would top it off with 50/50 coolant/distilled water. cold engine cold fluid. Keep track of how much you put in and that will tell you how low it was. The coolant capacity is "3.4 L (3.6 US qt) (Reserve tank full level, including radiator and engine)" Even if the temp sensor is not working properly, you will at least have the right amount of coolant in there which could only make running safer. I am running in 40-50 F air temps and mine runs at 2 bars unless I am idling at a standstill it will go to 3 bars.

If you see no leaks and fluid level maintains, I would do a complete drain and fluid change. You don't know what is in there. Could be pure water.

I wouldn't stress over it. It may well just be improper maintenance but no harm done in the low temps we have this time of year.
RADIATOR FLUSH/COOLANT CHANGE -CLICK HERE

Is it normal for the APE chain tensioners to leak like this?

Have not heard of APEs leaking oil. Perhaps only needs to have lock nut tightened (i'd let that sit for now if it is not loosing a ton of oil. That is a whole 'nother situation. Totally unrelated to coolant, i'm sure. Based on what you have seen of the coolant level. I would do an entire reset of the APE to be sure it is set at the proper tension.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/30/2011 @ 9:18 AM *

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Do we have to use Kawasaki coolant, or does any coolant work? I remember on my honda, it was always recommended to only use Honda coolant. It was EXTREMELY expensive. A quart that was 50/50 was the same price as a whole gallon.

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I think i am going to go and get a gallon of distilled water and try that out to see if I have a large leak or not. If i do not, i will drain it and refill with the expensive stuff.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/30/2011 @ 1:18 PM *

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Well...I don't recall saying anything about a head gasket.I doubt if it's that.You'd have water in your oil.Looks to me like MAYBE that overflow could have something lodged in it(or kinked under there somewhere?).Instead of heading over to the reservoir bottle,it's squeezing past the upper hose connection.Plenty of pressure when she's warmed up to operating temps.You could remove the reservoir connection end of the overflow line(the top one) and see if you can blow some air through there...just enough to see if it's okay.Still looks to me like that upper line has been replaced.Might be squeezed above the engine head there somewhere.

Bubbles from air pockets in the lines HUB...not "head gasket"... I think if the cap was somehow faulty,there would be a film of coolant residue on that filler neck under the lip.None there that I see.I know with mine...that cap can be a bit finicky.It doesn't always just "slide locked" like yer automobile!And it can seem a bit "too tight"...that's normal(at least mine is like that).

Ya'll gonna scare him to death.Nothin wrong that I see...except the overflow line is not working okay...maybe low coolant and extra pressure build up from running low.I say...fill er up,run.get er warmed up good...check that filler area for leakage at the overflow line connection.Make sure there's no air pockets in the radiator line circuit(per the manual).And RIDE!

Fill...start...let idle to operating temp.Check radiator area for leaks...holes...anything.Let er run even if she comes up to say one or two bars....it won't hurt the engine.Check for leaks.You mentioned "aftermarket" stuff on there..looks like a radiator guard on there.MAYBE...that's not the original radiator...could possibly be a REPAIRED unit...might be leaking someplace on it.Just a thought.IF it overheated because of low coolant,it would create greater pressure than normal.It could possibly squeeze out of those fittings at the filler neck there.But there'd have to be an obstruction in the lines.Otherwise,it'd go to the overflow bottle.Your coolant would get sucked from the reservoir to fill the radiator.You say..."the levels are fine in the reservoir".Okay...so I think there's a blockage somewhere.

I think that upper line is pinched under the frame and engine somewhere.You could check the reservoir bottle when she's good and warm...see if she's pulling coolant from it.(while running).

Here's a thought...is that cap a stock zx14 cap?Possibly it's an aftermarket cap....might not be opening up correctly OR maybe blocking that lower and upper feed line hole(s).(the ones at the filler neck).

Lots of guys "think" the bike runs "hot".It doesn't.It's normal to have "high" appearing temp bars going.Depends on your riding,or sitting in traffic.Maybe this guy figured he'd replace the cap with something rated differently.IDK.

I'm lookin at your pic there...the one with the cap off.That upper line IS NOT STOCK.AND,there's NO connector ring on it to keep it from leaking.Something's not right there.Also..that pic shows the fins in there...the manual shows virtually the same pic,but the fins are going across and level with the upper portion of the radiator top.NOT up higher than the filler neck area.At least that's what it appears to be doing to me.It looks vertical,not horizontal.Something's not right .That radiator has been messed with somehow?.

I just did a bit of comparing in the parts fiche.The 09 zx14...don't know what year yours is..the radiator has a single fan,and the last four numbers in the part number are NOT the same as the ones for the 09 CONCOURS(which has TWO fans).The description numbers are the same for both radiators however.So that tells me the OUTSIDE design is still the same between the two models(the last four numbers suggest a "change" of something)They are not the same on the 14 and Concours..You don't suppose he installed a Concours radiator in there do you?Having TWO fans suggests that Kawasaki addressed the "heat problem" on the Concours(which was pretty serious according to the owners)...and MAYBE they changed the internal core volume as well.Still think that pic is showing a "different" core.I could be full o' hooey...but it does look different to me.Do you have TWO fans?

08 Concours...cap assembly..#49085-1066. 07 zx14...cap assembly...49085-1070 P1.1....09 zx14 cap assembly...49085-1066...same as the Concours.For whatever it's worth.USUALLY...a guy will buy a Rad guard to AVOID rock strikes.However,some guys won't get one UNTIL their radiator gets already damaged.Maybe he replaced your rad with a different one,and added the rad guard for insurance?That pic(the upper one)sitting just under the hot wind cover...is that a second fan on there?Looks like a fan housing to me.The zx14 fan is on the right side.

IF you DO have a Concours radiator on there...and the guy filled it per the zx14 amounts,it is possible that there wasn't enough in there to start with.It could overheat,and the reservoir levels would probably be "off".Assuming it IS a Concours radiator...filling it to the Concours levels should correct any problems...it should work fine as long as it fit in there okay.But it might not.Higher volume and flow could perhaps somehow throw off the ECU's settings for temp and such.IDK.

WHEEEEE!!!!from a simple hose leak...TO THIS!!!!

08,09 Concours radiator...last four numbers are 0107...zx14,08,09...last four numbers are 0080.Something's different.My guess...core volume.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 4/30/2011 @ 5:19 PM *

Update: 4/30/11
Well, i got some water. It took under a quart to fill the radiator. So that is good news. I just could not see anything from the top. I was going to start the bike up when i looked at my sight glass.

And then i opened the oil plug.

So i noticed this condensation a few weeks ago. There has not been condensation in the sight glass before. Only in the plug that one time. Most of my trips right now have been about 5-10 minutes. It has been very rainy lately and very cold. Most days have averaged 40-45 degrees. So I was not concerned. I just thought it was condensation. I think it still is, but what are peoples thoughts? It is close to time for an oil change, so i might just do that this week.

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Water Missing Question Solved:
I just bundled up the engine and ran her for about 5 minutes until the temp got to the second mark. Well, i wiped down the radiator because i dripped some on it when I filled it. about 1 minute later i saw this:


The previous owner had replaced the stock overflow hose for god knows what reason and never put clamps back on!!!
OMG!
There are so many little things that i really dont understand on this bike. I believe he did not do it, but the shop. It was one in seattle and i am not impressed by their handy work. They also installed a HID light kit on this bike by just plugging the ends into the original socket and then electrical taping it. When i bought the bike, the left side would turn on and off ever bump i hit.

So yeah, this is the other end connected to the reservoir.

I removed the clamp from the line that goes out of the bottle with the one shown here. It had no clamp originally on it. So this is where all the water was going and why the bottle was not empty. It just was flowing directly out of the radiator.

Good thing is that the water did not look like it had any oil in it, so i do not suspect a blown head gasket. :)

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/30/2011 @ 11:30 PM *

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I'd say...best stop runnin her for only 5 to ten minutes.At least let er get nice and warm to evaporate any condensation in that crankcase.Yer askin for some problems by ridin her like that.
I'd say...that previous owner was pinching a loaf when he shoulda been watchin what he was doin!
That overflow hose is made by MotionPro...what the heck is THAT doing on there?New Kawasaki product?

Hubster..I'll say again...at no time did I intimate he may have a head gasket leak.His rad fluid would have oil droplets floating around on top.He'd see that.That crankcase condensation though...that's not good.Got to let er get warmed up and running Viper before shuttin her down like you've been doing.I'd change that oil right away...start fresh.Filter too.

It's NOT a head gasket leak.He said the magic words...cold,rainy and 5 to 10 minute run to shutdown.

Viper..if you're gonna just go a few several miles..at least when you stop for shutdown,let er get good and warm...4 bars at least.Just to be safe.You know..rev er up some at idle and get the engine good and toasty.Seriously.That moisture's gonna destroy your internals.

Motion Pro hose...electrical taped HID's.Man Viper...I'd steer clear of THAT bunch if it were me.You might just want to take er to a reputable shop there and have yer guy go over the whole bike...just to make sure everything is okay...God knows WHAT might be "not okay".That taping...that's gotta go.And whatever else is jury rigged!

HUBSTER...please show me where I said "chocolate colored oil"...I'm missing that somewhere Oil in the radiator...head gasket leak.No oil in radiator water...gasket fine. I think we clarified the fact that he's got a non factory overflow hose on there.In spite of what anyone else thinks. May I just say....SHEEEEESH!

BTW.... is a fair dinkum? I couldn't find that ANYWHERE in the Owner's manual under periodic maintenance/radiator.

Wasn't in the service manual either...WTH?

Yo Viper..in that one pic there...that factory fitting is not leaking is it?The big one?Kinda looks iffy to me.Looks like it may be cracked at the weld?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/1/2011 @ 2:21 AM *

Yo Viper..in that one pic there...that factory fitting is not leaking is it?The big one?Kinda looks iffy to me.Looks like it may be cracked at the weld?

You know, i am not sure. It almost looks like it is, but it was also dripping from above. I am going to see how low the radiator got after my running her today.

Yeah, I drive 2.5 miles to work from my house. I dont really drive more then that except on the weekends. I will see if i can figure out a way to heat her up. The weather is suppose to get into the 60s this week. Right now it is 38 outside. This has been one crappy spring. We had snow just like 2 days ago.

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Do we have to use Kawasaki coolant, or does any coolant work?

Go ONLY with a coolant made for aluminum engines. A liter of 100% kaw coolant is ~$11.

I think i am going to go and get a gallon of distilled water and try that out to see if I have a large leak or not.

That should be fine. They run pure distilled water at the track in case there is a spill on track.. I do not know if 100% water cools as well but it will work. DEF DOES NOT PREVENT FREEZING AS WELL. Make sure you don't leave it like that. 50/50 is what is designed to prevent corrosion of aluminum. Pure water is NOT recommended in the owners manual because it will not prevent corrosion.

it took under a quart to fill the radiator.

Good sign!

Most of my trips right now have been about 5-10 minutes. It has been very rainy lately and very cold. Most days have averaged 40-45 degrees. So I was not concerned. I just thought it was condensation.

What you are describing is consistent with all the conditions under which I have noted condensation on my oil sight glass. That is normal. Goes to show that short runs are not the greatest for a motor. I try to run it 30 minutes, at least, especially when it is cold out.

However, your condensation looks green. ...and since there is an issue with coolant, I would keep an eye on that. The condensation I have seen in the oil sight glass is white--just like water. I don't know that condensation would be green in your crank case.

Who knows though? I have seen mucky green brown sludge in the oil at the first oil change after storage---caused by ----ding, ding---- you guessed it, CONDESATION!!! --riding too late in the season and the best day I get to do the oil change for winter is a 40 degree day in January with high humidity from the snow thaw :/

This has been one crappy spring. We had snow just like 2 days ago.

Tell me about it. This sux.

I feel a lot better having the hose leak identified. If it is also a crack in that weld, you may be able to patch that with a piece of sheet metal and some JB Weld? or perhaps have a welder patch it for real? or ask around for another product (I would be apprehensive about using any internal plug up stuff because that will coat your water jackets and pump and everything). An internal leak would seem very unlikely. Just keep an eye on the level in the filler neck. If it stays up, I doubt there is any thing else you need to figure out.

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/1/2011 @ 9:19 AM *

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I guess it COULD be a stock core and Rad.Most likely is.Just kind of a strange optical illusion I guess between the two pics..the book,and his.I tried to find a pic of a Connie radiator core...like in the zx14 book.Couldn't find one.I couldn't find any info on Radiator Volumes either.Not for the Connie anyway.Oh well....I just hope you get er sorted out Viper.

viperkillertt wrote:

They also installed a HID light kit on this bike by just plugging the ends into the original socket and then electrical taping it. When i bought the bike, the left side would turn on and off ever bump i hit.

Not exactly sure what you mean, but if you mean they took the male ends of the stock headlamp wiring harness (frame side) and just stuck them into the HID harness female sockets (example - DDM Tuning kit) then they did it right.

I put DDM Tuning high and low beam kits in, and used the stock wiring harness this way. Instead of using electrical tape, I put clear silicone adhesive on them, and after two seasons of riding in all kinds of weather they still come on first time, every time, working perfectly.

Mine are 35w, 6,000 K, so all four can be on using the stock harness and fuse with no problems. Some have trouble with 55w versions, because 4 of them draw 80 more watts of power than 35w versions, and they are more susceptable to bad connections. If you can, see if they used a relay, as the wire on the relay which senses when the key is turned on (to enable the relay) is probably attached with a scothlok and might be "loose".

But as for turning off and on going over bumps, it means they didn't hook it up as solid as I did. Its easy to fix, but you will probably have to lift the upper cowl off about 2 feet so you can get at the connections. Might be able to do it without removing the upper cowl, depends on where the connectors are.

When I installed my DDM Tuning HIDs (low and high sets) I affixed the mini-ballasts and starters to the cowling, basically starters to the headlamp mounting frame, and the ballasts silicone adhesived to the inside of the upper cowling. Then had my nephew hold the upper cowl about 2 feet "off" the frame so I could make the connections and put the silicone adhesive on them. Then we rested it on a stool and let the adhesive dry, and then re-installed the upper cowl. So if I ever need to take it off again, it comes off just like a stock upper cowl, because I didn't have to run any new wires from the upper cowl to the frame.

* Last updated by: privateer on 5/1/2011 @ 11:32 AM *

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But as for turning off and on going over bumps, it means they didn't hook it up as solid as I did. Its easy to fix, but you will probably have to lift the upper cowl off about 2 feet so you can get at the connections. Might be able to do it without removing the upper cowl, depends on where the connectors are.

No, they simply did a very bad job of taping it. The tape had come off and it was not making a connection. I fixed this about a month ago. No problem anymore. I just thought it was funny. I am not a fan of electrical tape. I only use it in an emergency, never for anything long term. I always solder my connections for long term use.

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viperkillertt wrote:

I am not a fan of electrical tape. I only use it in an emergency, never for anything long term. I always solder my connections for long term use.

I use electrical tape to wrap wires together, and to wrap solder points to insulate parallel solders. Which is what it was invented for.

As for soldering, that is seperate from the issue of taping. If you solder the connections between the frame side of the harness and the cowl side of the harness, you cannot take the cowl off without breaking the wire and/or solder joints.

That would just be all wrong since there is an easier way to do it.

* Last updated by: privateer on 5/1/2011 @ 5:49 PM *

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I use electrical tape to wrap wires together, and to wrap solder points to insulate parallel solders. Which is what it was invented for.

I use heat shrink tubing over the solder connections. I do then wrap everything in electrical tape, but not just the bare wires. I am not talking about the lights though. I am just talking in general with wiring on a car.

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Well, i went to the store and got a new hose clamp. It did fix the leak on the coolant reservoir line. But when i got home, i had a new leak :) YAY!

So, now i get to go back to the store and get a new hose line. I hope this ends soon.
The good news is that the radiator does not have an actual leak. The spot that looked like it was leaking, was just residual water from the hose above. So i will not need the jb weld that i bought.
:)

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Which is good, because JBWeld will fail under vibration quickly.

Lets see, what would I use it for? Maybe to get to a shop.

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hmm? haven't heard from Viper for awhile??

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I am here.
Been driving every day.
Update about the radiator. It was 2 leaks in the hoses.
I rode for 5 days with the fairings off to make sure i did not have another leak.
The coolant hose running to the top of the motor had a very tiny leak. Then the overflow hose did not have any clamps.
That was it.

Related to cooling, how hot do these run? I have been working on my fuel economy.
A week ago I fueled up and I had got my very best mixed fuel economy to date on the computer, 28.2MPG. But the real fuel economy was 24.5MPG. That was my worst actual fuel economy. This was after running some good fuel injector cleaner and putting in the new plugs+ a pretty lean map. So i decided on this fuel tank i would drive the opposite style. Keeping my revs up. I have stayed out of 5th gear around town and almost never go into 4th. This has heated up my bike. I am cruising around town at around 2,500-2800 RPM in 3rd gear. This is about 35MPH. Well the bike is really getting hot. Not going over 4 bars, but the fans seem to be kicking in if i ride for more then 10 minutes.

Is this normal? I am going to post my info on my MPG issues in my other thread. I am just wanting to hear about peoples thoughts on these bikes getting hot. I am a little nervous because Spokane gets HOT in the summer. Up to 100+.

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it'll be fine. try staying in 5th and 6th gears when you can like cruising for better mileage. just avoid lugging under 2K and enjoy the bike.

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Viper My bike runs 3 bars anything over 50 mph under 50 mph temp gets hot fast fan kicks in stays 1 bar from hot and I am getting 37.3 mpg right now on 93 octane but I have no hills its flat and I mean flat. Oh yea i think that whine on your bike might be from your water pump you had low fluid maybe damaged your Barings my moms Miata had a whine that got louder with the rpms replaced the water pump and the whine was gone the Barings were trash just something to check.

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i think that whine on your bike might be from your water pump

c
Mine has always made same noise but it seems quiter. It is not easy to compare recorded sound to live. Been sitting on bike while it warms up listening to it run. My guess is also cooling system.

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