I hope I'm not hated on for setting up this thread but all those different opinions have me extremely confused on what tune I should go with...

I have finally gotten around the principle of potentially voiding my warrantee and exploring the 14s true potential.

I have ordered a full Brock's CT Single Exhaust and am looking for a tune. I've done ALOT of research and lurking on this board and a few others, I spoke to Sebastian (CBlast) on the phone and am quite sold on his helpfulness, level of expertise, and his full package with the quick shifter and Launch Control. I am also slightly considering Romans and Ivans tunes from a lot of positive feedback on here but for not, CBlast is the one I'm leaning towards mostly because I spoke to him and he gave me a good 30 mins of his time explaining his work and what to expect in detail!

Now I have a few doubts as I believe my bike is a European spec. The Speedo is in KMs and I've noticed all tuners brag about an extra 500RPMS out of the tune when my 14's limited to 11,500RPM from Factory. I believe some people on here with the European bikes had a few issues with bogging down and cutting if I'm not mistaken? I do not want to end up having to ship my ECU back and forth across the world!! I don't really care for removing the speed limiter either as I do not have a lot of personal control and WILL always try to find the limit; 186 is more than enough for my future and the future of any dependents whether I know about or not yet :p.

What do you guys recommend? I'm worried about fitting the exhaust on the stock ECU and running into a lean condition, PCV not an option since I never liked them ever since I installed on on my 2007 Suzuki LT-R450-R Quad Bike.

I also have an issue with the front wheel lifting and it affects my launches... I presume this will be even worse after the mods... I am slightly considering stretching the swing arm but I don't want to go more than 2" to maintain cornering credentials and close to factory look... Any one out there with a similar set up or with alternative advise?

Please bare with me gents I'm quite new to this whole ordeal, I came from the adventure bike scene and am not too familiar with whats hot with the hyper bikes.. I did a lot of reading but still need some reassurance from you pros out there.

* Last updated by: Blown3UR on 12/21/2015 @ 3:37 AM *

Considering Romans

What do you guys recommend? I'm worried about fitting the exhaust on the stock ECU and running into a lean condition, PCV not an option since I never liked them ever since I installed on on my 2007 Suzuki LT-R450-R Quad Bike

Blown3UR I just read your post about not liking the PCV and must say I completely understand you not wanting a aftermarket fuel adjustment tool placed on your bike. I get it.

I would also like you to Please keep in mind the PCV is a very easy to use Fuel adjustment tool. All who own one have the ability to adjust their fueling.

Why is this important ? Well, simply put we flashers can not Guarantee a proper AFR on your bike with your fuel with your elevation your exact mods, that days AR etc. We can only "Hope" to get you close. Anyone telling you different is,,,,,,,

So what's in the Full Flash should be your next thought. If you came up with fuel adjusting you are correct. We Minus roughly 8% fuel up top to lean out your AFR. Now This number may or may Not give your bike the Fastest AFR number down the track.

Once again, Untill your own bikes AFR line is "proven" to you the owner all we have done is sold you the hope it's close. Make sense ?

So, if we flash in your fueling and it not perfect how are you going to adjust your own bikes fuel to get proper AFR ? Fact is you can't and now you no longer have the ability to add a PCV and use a local tried and tested map.

Anyway, just wanted you to be aware not all is as it is hyped up to be. As for the Flash, Plug and play is a yes. Perfect Fueling for your Bike is a No.

Blown3UR. If you get a chance read over in Romans Flash thread. Take note of the fueling percentage Numbers shown from guys in your area who are building their own maps. From here you will note 8% to the lean is Not the Fueling number for you.

I hope this Helps.

Cheers.

The issue with euro bikes is the O2 sensor when you flash it with Woolich software. (Not sure if it's the same with with other software) If you disable it in the ecu you still have to physically disconnect the unit on the bike. A mate of mine and Yannih had this issue
As for running lean I had the same fear, however been working with Romans on building the map for my bike and my area and putting on an AFR gauge I could see exactly where I was running. Put my mind at ease. I now have the ability and tools to make my map run exactly for my bike and my conditions. I can also see when she is not running the right AFR numbers. I have a PCV5 with autotune and POD 300 AFR gauge ( it also does data logging) there are other units out there I just found this the easiest to understand and work with considering my initial limited knowledge when I started.

As Romans said check out his thread, he explains step for step to get the PC mapping right.

* Last updated by: untamed on 12/21/2015 @ 6:58 AM *

The issue with euro bikes is the O2 sensor when you flash it with Woolich software. (Not sure if it's the same with with other software) If you disable it in the ecu you still have to physically disconnect the unit on the bike.

This issue should never be considered a issue for Euro Guys. Woolich Software is not the issue. The user of the Software is creating a conflict.

It is Very very Important the "Flasher" knows when flashing Euro Bikes He or She Must Make sure Not to Adjust the fueling in the low end range where the 02 sensor looks at. It's really that simple. Secret I suppose ? In short give the 02 sensor the AFR line the ECU wants or expect trouble. Follow this simple rule and there is no need to remove anything. Unless you want to of course.

Working with Romans on building the map for my bike and my area and putting on an AFR gauge I could see exactly where I was running. Put my mind at ease. I now have the ability and tools to make my map run exactly for my bike and my conditions. I can also see when she is not running the right AFR numbers.

Yes, now had I given Untamed a Generic Flash there is no way I could have duplicated his current fueling results. This part is very hard for many to grasp. The best part is Untamed did the fueling all on his own. With the tools he has on board he can never be lied to or made to believe in someone else's stories of perfect. Well Done.

Now don't misunderstand, the flash still brings with it faster fly opening and timing changes safety mode repair. I highly recommend getting your ECU Flashed. Just not so fussy on the fueling side of the flash.

Yes, now had I given Untamed a Generic Flash there is no way I could have duplicated his current fueling results. This part is very hard for many to grasp. The best part is Untamed did the fueling all on his own. With the tools he has on board he can never be lied to or made to believe in someone else's stories of perfect. Well Done.

Get any flash you want to get your fueling on the right trail. then self tune with autotune and PCV. That will be the ONLY best tune for your bike with your mods. Simple to understand. If you don't want to self tune, it's anybody's guess which flash is best. Whoever has the bike that's closest to your bike I guess.

I have a PCV5 with autotune and POD 300 AFR gauge ( it also does data logging)... I just found this the easiest to understand. As Romans said check out his thread, he explains step for step to get the PC mapping right.

With the pc5, the 300 screen, daisy chain the autotune, disconnect the 02, replace with the 02 in the auto kit, blue paint tape over the blinking dash, set to autotune, set to 11,500 rpm so you do not float the valves missing a shift. Or do you need 500 extra to really tag them all? The flies hardly make a difference. No waiting for a brick being sent back and forth. Goes right back to stock with a disconnect.

As far as warranty, you are about to break the contract. Either chew on your nails and let the warranty pass or play the odds.

Thank you for the wealth of information Roman, your thread is one of the threads I was following religiously but it became too hardcore for my tuning abilities. I just thought a nice ECU reflash with a closer setting to optimum than the factory tune and the opened butterfly valves would be a nice compromise.

Hub; Excuse my ignorance but who makes the 300 screen, daisy chain; and what blinking dash needs to by covered by paint tape. Basically, do you believe (based on your experience) that a simple PCV w/Autotune and applicable monitoring devices that I would have more of an ideal setup than going with a reflash?

Thank you for the wealth of information Roman, your thread is one of the threads I was following religiously but it became too hardcore for my tuning abilities.

Harcore was the one word I was always trying to avoid, UGH. My belief is if I show you all the hidden tricks behind the cloak most will soon see there is No Magic Pill. The science can't be avoided, tricked, or lied to. My hope is this teaching in turn should save you Money and wasted time

Second, none of this is above your tuning abilities if you care to invest the time. Some really enjoy getting deep and personal with their machine. If you are that guy or are becoming that guy the pieces fall into place quickly. It's a great hobby. Ask the questions and the guys will come forward to help you.

I just thought a nice ECU reflash with a closer setting to optimum than the factory tune and the opened butterfly valves would be a nice compromise.

You're not wrong. Get your bike Flashed !

Everyone that flashes their ECU loves it.

Most don't know why or what changed in the bike to make it feel this way, they just know bike feels better and more responsive. From here Flash Threads take root. Read untill you go blind.

In short, what they are "All" feeling is the faster fly opening. Dozens and dozens of threads started to brag up this truth. All describe the Exact same thing all using different words. This is what confuses the reader. Definitely hurts my head. I explain when I can. Some get mad, some hate me for it, changes nothing.

Important part is you are enjoying your new machine and having fun. Don't be afraid to ask.

Hub; Excuse my ignorance but who makes the 300 screen, daisy chain; and what blinking dash needs to by covered by paint tape. Basically, do you believe (based on your experience) that a simple PCV w/Autotune and applicable monitoring devices that I would have more of an ideal setup than going with a reflash?

Hub looking forward to your answer. What do you believe ? Can I answer next ?

who makes the 300 screen, daisy chain; and what blinking dash needs to by covered by paint tape.

Daisy chain means; all 3 will be [linked-together] daisy chained style being their term in their videos. When all 3 are tied in, you have the pc5 map being reburned with autotune>> revising the cells on the map. The 300 is showing the AFR in real time and other features you can program along side with the AFR numbers.

Because the flash has an 02 toggle feature to turn off the blinking code setting, where it says F and 1 down at the bottom of the square dash on the bike, they use this bar to trigger a 'check engine light' and explain it's a possible sensor down problem. The gas gauge would blink if say the fuel pump was disconnected from the tank. The water temp bar would flash or blink and would point you in this direction for a fault in a certain system. I would just ignore the blinking and forgo a tape over so as not to distract you from reading other data on the dash.

Another flashing attempt is to run an ohm resistor, a fat one, so when you figure out who or which 2 wires will flip the flashing light off, you can run that ohm resistor in place of the bike's 02 sensor. Your fingers will know you shorted something as this resistor should heat up you do not see a light go out. I'd wait a few seconds as I probe which 2 will ping the light off, waiting for the processor to flop it off. And might that loophole the blink... only a resistor away knows for sure.

Basically, do you believe (based on your experience) that a simple PCV w/Autotune and applicable monitoring devices that I would have more of an ideal setup than going with a reflash?

So as simple as it sounds, you want to autotune a cold morning setup, lock it in and now it's a rich setting for the hotter day kind of think-tune. So say the flash is set at a rich 13 AFR. You more or less autotune in the morning, save the map, turn off autotune, run the rich map you sort of matched fueling wise. Add the toggle option to the pc5 so you switch between 2 maps, your morning map is that rich all around [flashed] type map, then your altitude map is your 2nd map being leaner for the mountain climb so pick a hot day, atune and save. Bike stumbles along the higher you go, flip to map 2; map2 goes lean... no O2 sensor needed.

I am now open loop and covered my override [code = backup system] for the 02. Does this sound like it would work in theory?

With the pc5, the 300 screen, daisy chain the autotune, disconnect the 02, replace with the 02 in the auto kit, blue paint tape over the blinking dash, set to autotune, set to 11,500 rpm so you do not float the valves missing a shift. Or do you need 500 extra to really tag them all? The flies hardly make a difference. No waiting for a brick being sent back and forth. Goes right back to stock with a disconnect.
As far as warranty, you are about to break the contract. Either chew on your nails and let the warranty pass or play the odds.

Here's my interpretation:

'The POD-300, PC5 and AutoTune all link together electronically(daisy chain). Remove the stock o2 sensor and screw the sensor from the Autotune in there. This will throw a code or set off some kind of alert on the dash display so you will have to cover that with tape if you don't want to look at it. You are less likely to suffer engine damage if you miss a shift at the stock rev limiter than if you went to 12000 rpm with a flash. Tuning the flies makes very little improvement over stock fly tune. You will not need to worry about your ECU bricking (basically frozen permanently and now needs to be replaced which is very expensive). If you want to pull your PC5, AT and POD off, remove tape and put stock o2 sensor back in, you're back to stock and nobody will ever know the better if you have warranty issues. With a flash, you terminate the warranty.'

I think Hub's saying don't flash, just tune with a PC5. I am not so sure it would work to remove the stock o2 sensor...that would seem to drive the ECU crazy trying to compensate for 100% pure air and 0% exhaust gas. You'd be using your Autotune to right the o2 sensor which would be telling the ECU to drench the fueling for all that fresh air the sensor would be detecting. Your stock fueling would be insanely rich, no? . Never tried it though.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2015 @ 8:47 AM *

...also, we have some pretty compelling evidence on here that a stock tune was actually faster than a flash. See Vic's thread.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=54C9B0FC-CE5E-3E50-1BD54F77F45FAEE5&page=1

To me this sort of supports the notion that you need to self tune even if you get a flash.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2015 @ 8:57 AM *

Can I answer next?

Don't wait for me. The only thing is, the flash or the pc5 only needs a tre hack so that flash-grunt effect completes a flash? To tell you the truth, stock feels so much smoother getting off my flashed-hack.

ROFL..

I was right on with the Hubanese though. It's like second nature after reading your posts for years.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2015 @ 9:05 AM *

Perfect interpretation!

...that would seem to drive the ECU crazy trying to compensate for 100% pure air and 0% exhaust gas.

which would be telling the ECU to drench the fueling for all that fresh air the sensor would be detecting.

Your stock fueling would be insanely rich, no? . Never tried it though.

Open loop = Stoic
Closed loop = Stoic

Open loop fails = 760mmHg Backup (stoic basically)
Closed loop fails = 760mmHg Backup (DFI for digital backup) with a sprinkle of speaking 'flipflop speak' of one constant number coming in sets the code. The 02 is sending in analog (many numbers) and all is well, no code.

Don't wait for me. The only thing is, the flash or the pc5 only needs a tre hack so that flash-grunt effect completes a flash?

Hub you would never believe what I have found. Nor do I believe it, buttttt,,,,,,. I have found a fix, I will wait to post the proof until I prove it at least once more time. I want it to be a free mod for all who read. Easy fix. No TRE requiredHub c;ick Here

I was right on with the Hubanese though. It's like second nature after reading your posts for years.

Yep, you understand Hubanese quit well.

THE Stutter 100 % Gone. Party Time.

Blocked Rear Tone wheel with Metal tape. One mind numbing fu.king hole at a time. Fail.

Blocked Front wheel One hole at a time, Fail

Blocked both tone wheels Ten at a time, Fail

Blocked Half the fucking thing, Fail

Now I know what Im doing wrong, I'm not affecting the speedo with metal Tape.

Next Test. Must affect speedo. I need to buy Tone wheels. either weld in or cut barbs.

In short, my belief right now, is... Cheat the speedo, The Fix is here. Confidence is high.

On the outside you messing with analog input signals turned to single inputs? Ain't gonna happen is the backup; one keeps sending in the same [digital means a single digit] number as before and before that is a red flag that flashes, 'He Used Tons [of tape] we have a problem!'

Romes, I failed in my attempt to explain the complex in simple terms. Let me keep on boring you about the parts on the bike doing something specific in theory. If this does not bleed dead on fundamental moves are two, let me explain how easy I can make this into a handcuffed theory. The tape halved, then half tone wheel, the code hit pops up the moment it turned a blank, you just saw it ping on the dash later is more like the last priority. It works so lighting fast, that it did not enter the leading edge and trail off the window of a webbing say, look WATT you created. It's a beautiful mistake in so many ways.

I can now look at that tone wheel and see both an analog input and a digital input.
I can point out analog has many, digital is one, and that continuous tape over sending in one signal bleeds D.
I can see now, how analog input has to be continuous or it codes.
I can pull my zipper down, yank out cody, swirl it in the air, erase the chalkboard, I just schooled myself in the steps of analog vs digital on a tonewheel plate.

See me fiddlefuck dishitheory up in translation again?

See that as plain as day as I do?

See how locked I am in thishit I can take fundamental moves and ?

See how RAM dumps data waiting for the slightest window speed change?

See watt she made me do?

I haven't been on the forum in a while, moving and other bs has kept me waaay to busy.

Always my first question to someone is WHAT do you want to do with your bike?

If you're wanting to drag race then you need to talk to someone hardcore with a lot of experience like maverick.

If you want better street performance you're looking at something different, you want performance that isn't like a light switch, off or on.

Personally I like the adjustability of a pcv. To go with the pcv you need an ecu flash. Lots of great information on this forum but again, you need to FIRST decide want you want the end result to be.

Welcome back Rkt!

To add to Rkt's point, which I agree with, you also need to do some validation of your results. This means before and after testing based on whatever goals you've set. Yes, you can get some toilet paper from the dyno guy (or be told you'll gain 25 hp from some other guy) or you can do some actual testing to see how your numbers (acceleration times for example) were affected by the changes.

Hey fellas Merry X-Mas.

I was just noticed the polling concerning Flash threads Shutting down the Performance Section of this form ?

I can't help but notice this is New Flash Thread in a New Location discussing the same thing. I hope this does not have the same effect ?

Let me keep on boring you about the parts on the bike doing something specific in theory. If this does not bleed dead on fundamental moves are two, let me explain how easy I can make this into a handcuffed theory.

Hub no boring me if you are trying to Help. Fact is This Fucking Bike Should Not Stutter with gear changes. No one owner should have to deal with that. For many drag racers this is in fact a deal breaker for the ZX14.

I freely admit in my search for the stutter cause I was going mental. Mainly because two ECU's with the exact same serial number behaved differently in the exact same bike. How is this possible ? So now we study.

If I pull the Tone wheel sensor stutter gone. But, as you have read the not unexpected new issues arise. Still these tests needed to be done looking for anything out of place. I personally needed to see the results while looking for anything out of place that may lead me to the fix.

It was only after walking away did I change my thinking strategy.

There was a show on TV basically shitting on today's medical system. In short, explaining how Doctors today prescribe medicine to mask the problem but do Absolutely Nothing to prevent the cause of what gave you the Health Issue in the first place.

Got me thinking, Why not become the Bad Doctor and Mask the problem? Lets face it. Who cares what is causing the problem. We just want the symptom of the underlying issue gone so we can move forward.

So with new a approach in mind, after Months of wasted time, One Bike is fixed. Owner is on top of the world. Bike is smooth as silk and goes like hell. Can't make it stutter. Hub guys don't care about the inner workings of the ECU they just Demand results. This alone gives all peace of mind. Now I believe help is near.

Winter here now. Will play with this again in spring.

Off topic I know, sorry men

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/25/2015 @ 8:05 PM *

Romans anxiously awaiting hearing what the cure is.

Me too.

Thanks Vic, happy to be back. Really enjoying the wide open spaces of Texas, and the longer riding season, been in the 70's all this week!