Does anyone know why I would have coolant and oil in my air box? There is very little oil- the inside is just lightly coated with a thin layer of oil. And coolant, I would say about an ounce. I just noticed this while stripping it down while it's garaged for the winter. But when I was riding it, I never noticed any bad running conditions: no loss of power or sputtering or coughing or anything. It's a mystery to me how coolant would even get into the airbox. Any help is appreciated.

Sounds like a blown head gasket sorry bro!

---

What color is oil in the glass level? If it is oil looking, hummm... If it is chocolate in color = COOT called it.

---

I think Coot called it- it is chocolate brown. I couldn't be sure looking through the glass level, so I drained some into a clear container. I still wasn't sure, so I poured some fresh oil into a shot glass for comparison. It looked like Southern Comfort, and the oil I drained from the bike definately looked chocolate brown. I was wondering if this is because coolant gets mixed in with oil, so I poured some coolant into my shot glass of oil. The two don't mix. Suprisingly, the coolant sinks to the bottom and the oil sits on top. I held it up to the light, and was tempted to drink it. I tried stirring them, and they still don't mix. They don't even mix a little, and then seperate. They simply don't mix at all- interesting. I contemplated the repercussions of a blowm head gasket, and wondered if this means that coolant was getting into my oil. I tossed back my shooter. The oil kinda coats my entire mouth and throught and is reminisent of cod liver oil, but is quickly followed by the coolant, which has a sweet musky taste to it. Not bad.

you would be looking for coolant in the oil if there is a lot then maybe [milky] is you coolant down, have you been adding, also oil in the water, brown goo on top of the green in the radiator around cap.

Some one had this problem before , do a search see what you can find

if I find will post a link here

good luck

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 1/7/2012 @ 1:36 AM *

I think Coot called it- it is chocolate brown.

That he did.

It looked like Southern Comfort, and the oil I drained from the bike definitely looked chocolate brown.

That it does.

I was wondering if this is because coolant gets mixed in with oil, so I poured some coolant into my shot glass of oil. The two don't mix.

Heat it as hot as the crankcase. Stir it, as fast as as crank spinning at ten grand.

Surprisingly, the coolant sinks to the bottom and the oil sits on top.

Water is heavier than oil. Nature floats Exxon to the top. The sun pops off the fuel, evap style. Solid liquid gas again.

They simply don't mix at all- interesting.

Pull the dipstick to see the rise of oil. Crack the drain plug, get ready. I'll repeat, you crack the drain plug, the coolant begins. That's if you catch that first drop and stopped the engine. That would be the first guy to come out [if] we had enough drops behind the drain plug. We are talking H E A V Y!

I contemplated the repercussions of a blown head gasket, and wondered if this means that coolant was getting into my oil.

It wasn't Southern Comfort!

I tossed back my shooter.

My kind of guy.

---

Well, I guess I'll be changing the head gasket. I was tearing it down to adjust the valves anyway. Now I just have to get a little further into it. I've never been this far into it before, but I've been studying the service manual and I'm looking forward to it- and I have a few months of cold weather to play around with it. And I am planning a couple of long road trips for next summer, so better to discover this now than hundreds of miles from home, at 90 mph.
I appreciate your guys help, and I'm sure I'll need more guidance and tips as I get into it.
Today I am going to put together a parts list- gaskets, sealants, oil, coolant, etc.- and then go to the bike show this aft- I'm sure I can pick up some ideas there and chat up some parts guys. And look longingly at the 2012 ZX14.

Lets not get carried away without validation. Remove the radiator cap. Are you low on coolant? Top off the coolant with distilled water. Keep the cap off. Start the bike. Make sure that you see bubbles coming up at that neck. Another test is to take a compression. test. One of the barrels will bleed down that open gasket.

You'll hear shit like, 'take a sanding disc to the head. They are drinking too much ripple wine is what will happen to the head surface. Straight edge razor is to keep the machined finish intact on both surfaces. Next is to see if some part of the head has a warp or the cylinder has a problem.

That surface finish has to be like it came out of the milling machine, once you remove whatever is sticking.

---

I was planning on checking the head once I got that far. If the gasket is burnt out, I guess there has to be a reason it burnt out. But, ya, a compression test before it's torn apart is a good idea. I guess if there are bubbles coming up through the cooling system, it's from the compression coming through the blown gasket and into system? And, I still don't understand how, with a blown gasket, coolant gets into the air box- through the gasket, into the combustion chamber, and up through the intake valve? It seems, if it took that route, it would get burnt up, or that cylinder wouldn't be firing.

if your engine still runs sweet, it would be a bit early to jump in with a fist full of spanners and wrenches.

Its a last resort to to lift that head, is it running hot , rough idle, colour oil and water, flush both and replace , dose it repeat what you have found, pressure test radiator etc etc.
Pull the plugs wind her over , look for coolant
How much coolant was there in that air box, monitor it, watch its progress
This is a journey , I don't think your there yet, but its up to you.

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 1/7/2012 @ 5:12 PM *

And, I still don't understand how, with a blown gasket, coolant gets into the air box- through the gasket, into the combustion chamber, and up through the intake valve? It seems, if it took that route, it would get burnt up, or that cylinder wouldn't be firing.

The breather tube goes up to and into the ram chamber. That vapor is being boiled and sent to the ram side you are seeing.

---

Hub; but if it was boiled off vapor, wouldn't the coolant be removed from the distillate?

---

Can you post up some pictures of the oil/coolant in your air box and another shooter of oil in the sun (if it is the same oil) so we can see the color?

---

I have the coolant all cleaned out of the airbox now, so I can't show you that. Hmm, what's the ram side? Hub, you're talking about the crankcase vent or the pare valve hose? I guess both are on the back side of the air filter (that's the ram side?) and, ya, that's where the coolant was. and it looked like it was poured straight in from the bottle- ie. clean. The oil, that I drained from the bike, is definately choclate brown. When I was riding it, I'm sure the exhaust wasn't anything unusual. And the bike was running fine. I've pressure tested the coolant system, and it seemed to bleed off pressure very slowly- but then I don't have 100% confidence in the pressure tester that I was using, so I'm calling that inconclusive. I'm ready now to do a compression test- but the temperature outside has dropped to below what my heater can keep up with- so it may be a day or two. But, looking down the stacks with a flashlight, it looks like I can see traces of coolant down at least one stack, and it appears that that valve is burnt or has some build up on it.
As far as yanking the head off, I was going to be adjusting valves anyway, so taking the head off isn't much further down that road. I will continue to assess the situation as I go, but at this point, I think I will feel more comfortable riding it if I've put a new head gasket in, checked the valves and the head.
Q: does the engine have to be warm to do a compression test?

* Last updated by: CanTour on 1/10/2012 @ 7:03 PM *

When you have coolant in your oil, it looks like a chocolate milkshake when it's hot. If you check it when it's cold it will separate and the part you see in the window may not look too bad. Good luck and keep us posted.

Mad

---

I finally found some time to do a compression test. The manual gives a range of 149 psi to 228 psi, which seems like a huge spread to me. Mine were all within that range, and were all pretty close. They ranged from about 182 psi to 188 psi. It's good news, but I guess I'll continue taking it apart, and get the head off, and see what it looks like.

* Last updated by: CanTour on 1/12/2012 @ 9:11 PM *

Hub; but if it was boiled off vapor, wouldn't the coolant be removed from the distillate?

No, al, you'd have to make a distillery to separate the green die from the water. In other words, steam pressure. Kind of like how they boil crude. The gas or vapor weights that condensing from the distilling. In other words, you can separate jet fuel, kerosine, paraffin, oil, grease... Just boy boiling that clump of goo.

What kind of mileage we talking, CT? You've got me curious. I'll debate the hot test my compression. Very simple. Ask the fallacy if they heat their engine up each time to start the car at all. Stated another way, don't we need a cold number? Doesn't the car start up cold? Is that not a true reading?

1. I spark or I don't -go bringing that tree in.
2. I need fuel or I don't - keep thinking up variables.
3. I am ready to start, I have spark, fuel, last thing I need is?

Who said a hot stick down the dipstick? BoOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo!

* Last updated by: Hub on 1/12/2012 @ 10:39 PM *

---

Ya Hub, I was suprised to read that the engine should be warm to do a compression test. The last time I did a compression test was many years ago on 60 and 70 vintage chev's, and I don't recall ever doing it on a warm engine. And if it was warm, removing the spark plugs would definately be warm on the finger tips.
Anyway, the bike has about 22 thousand miles on it.

Does anyone know what this mess of wires is?
It's under the gas tank just behind the battery box.

Possible ABS wires. An ABS main box goes there near the battery? Without tearing down the bike, that is my guess. See, the wire harness is made with a few less parts attached. Cheaper just to make all the harness the same with the phantom wires being taped up. Usually there are a few blank tape ties, but those may go to europe or asia with the units installed. We get the tape tied harnesses.

Thanks for the mileage. I have 5k more than you. I'll have to guess mine was more filtered. It's not abused, but well ridden. Oil gets changed under 3K on average. Has to be a cleaner intake. Less contamination at the pleats. 182 vs. 210 on my/your low, verses 188 to my 220 are the rest. No, I think we may have pulled the right compression readings.

Mine was a total experiment. It seems to have exceeded by pounds vs. mileage. Well wait... You pack more load than I do. If you are packing passenger, baggage, that is more ring load, right? You open more throttle on the initial stop and go, so that brings down some wear. I don't know? Gotta weight the variables.

---

I abandoned the blown gasket theory. Initially I was skeptical because the bike had been running fine when I had last rode, and there was none of the white smoke. Yesterday I spoke to a Kawi mechanic, and he was mystified by the coolant in the air box. He said he's never seen or heard of it before, and couldn't come up with an explanation of how it would get there. Then I suggested to a friend that the running theory is that it is a blown head gasket and that the coolant gets into the combustion chamber, up the intake valve, and into the airbox. He looked confused, and said, but the air isn't going from the combustion chamber to the airbox, it's going from the airbox to the combustion chamber. "Bling," the light went on. Think of an engine as a air pump, as they say. Air comes into the airbox, gets sucked into the combustion chamber, and pumped out the exhaust. If there was a blown gasket, coolant would get sucked into the combustion chamber, and pushed out the exhaust. And of course it does, as white exhaust, as everyone's been telling me.
It's all a fun learning experience for me.
I'm still keeping my eye open for a way that coolant could have gotten into the airbox, but I don't think I will find an explanation. I'm guessing that I will put my bike back together, it will run great, and the coolant in the airbox will be an unsolved mystery.
So I checked my valve clearances, and they all checked out great.
And then decided to yank the head. What the hell, it's at least two months before we get some bike riding weather anyway. And I was curious. And having fun.
The head gasket is fine, but the tops of the pistons and the top of the cylinders, above the pistons travel, looks seriously carboned up.

My headless bike.

Cams, head gasket, head.

Crusty piston top.

Crud above top of piston travel.

What now?
And, is this to be expected? And, would it continue to run OK in this state?

* Last updated by: CanTour on 1/15/2012 @ 11:45 PM *

Bro...that doesn't look okay to me...there's some moisture gettin in that piston top somewhere...at least it looks like cooked something in there rather than just carbon.No..that doesn't look right.How's you plugs?What do THEY look like?

On that #1 cylinder...on the left side lower part of the top surface of the block....look at the build up right there as opposed to the rest of the top round surface around that particular cylinder.Then look at the piston top at that same point.Something appears to be being pushed up right there into the combustion chamber.Got some serious big flakes of something getting ready to break free.That whole side of the piston top and cylinder top there look to me like they're burning something 'extra'.IDK...I'm not an engine builder...but THAT does NOT look like an even combustion situation.IF the bike was run...then shut off...and somehow the coolant is getting into the oil,is it possible that at some level of heat,the coolant in the oil(if there is) is 'boiling out if solution' and vaporizing going up into the stacks...and into the airbox?You have the filter there....this could have been happening for a while,so the filter MAY NOT at this point be showing any trapped liquified coolant..but maybe it was before?There's really no way now to know how LONG that coolant has been in there.This may have happened a while back.IDK...just some ideas of how it may have gotten in your airbox(at one point anyway).If it did vaporize and flow upwards cause of the engine heat while sitting after a ride...it could get in there I'd think,and then recoagulate as coolant as it cooled back down.Over several runs.It's DEFINITELY NOT gonna make it into the airbox while that engine is sucking air for running.That's a given.

Another thing...you have those wires on there...I'm not buyin the theory that they're going to a possible abs future install..although they COULD be.I think SOMEONE tried to run your bike with some sort of power mod...and LEFT the filter out for possible Drag Runs?If there wasn't a filter in there at those times...coolant could vaporize from the oil(if it was getting in there) and THEN get up past the stacks and into the airbox while she sat not running.This to me sounds possible.IDK.You did say oil and coolant(in the airbox)...so it COULD be a mix getting past that ring there,and on up.

BTW...your #3 and #4 cylinders/pistons look pretty normal?#1....somethings going on there.

That top pic,and the next one clearly(to me anyway) show a problem on that #1 cylinder at the left hand lower(rear) portion of the head AND the piston top.None of the other cylinders look like they've been affected.The gasket mating surface(s) look clean and okay on those).You do have a tinge of 'yellow' on that one pic...that doesn't look okay either.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/16/2012 @ 2:05 AM *

I've had the bike since new, so no one else has been making mods to it. I guess Kawi makes one harness for all models, and any wiring that isn't being used on one particular model is just taped up- there's a lot of sloppy wireing and strange routing choices.
But also, The number 4 piston, which is at the top of it's stroke, looks ugly in the photo and the other three look alright. They only look alright because of the photo- all four pistons look like the #4 piston.

Trust me, that is a well taped wire harness. One of the best and I've torn into the Big4's-tuff. Good stuff.

Lets talk about mileage. How much? Let's talk about that photo. It looks like there at 3 o'clock, a ridge? A chunk missing? Something is not square all the way around there?

---

There's about 22 thousand miles on it. Hub, you're talking about 3 o'clock on the piston? Ya, it does look odd in the photo. I'll have to have a closer look at that when I get home. That build up above the piston travel and on top of the piston is the most disturbing. That build up above the piston travel is about an eighth of an inch thick, and cracked off in places, and discoloured, and crumbling. I found little flecks of it on top of the valves. And the tops of those pistons feel like 80 grit sandpaper.