I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I have always seen that white film when I took out the RH rear foreman bolt and the screw has been a little sticky going in which I guess got worse over time. I normally use locktite on these bolts so I thought it was just built up locktite. Last time, I knew I shouldn't continue threading the bolt in. I had noticed the threads had started to shave away the last few times I took it out. but I was in a hurry and wanted to ride the bike. It was so stiff I didn't even thread it all the way tight to the fairing.

I believe there is a connection between that white film I always see and the thread damage. Any ideas? Maybe corrosive gas from the battery? The LH side which is farther from the battery is not nearly as bad but I think it's starting there too because the bolt goes in tight right away.

I have a thread repair tap here and a new bolt so I hope that does it. I just wonder if there are any preventative measures I can take in the future to avoid a second occurrence.

Are those factory bolts?If not,it could be a chemical reaction over time with the two metals.Not sure about adding any locktite to those either.Those threads look pretty distorted.Are you sure those bolts actually ARE the right pitch and all?They shouldn't be 'tight' just starting to thread in.Or tightening well before going all the way.That bolt is definitely shot.The frame holes are pretty soft.One small crossthread,it gets worse.That looks like an anodised bolt.Probably alloy.I painted mine,but left the shanks clear.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/18/2017 @ 9:19 AM *

The loctite may have taken up a thread pitch angle, where you more or less had to thread the first winds like a needle, meaning, to line up the compound taking up the thread grooves. So the initial cross-threading kept the new pitch cutting a new groove over the original threaded hole.

Say if you first cleaned the old compound out of the threads with a tap, used fresh locker again, maybe it would have gone in fine. When I use locker, I run the drop way back at the threads so the initial beginning threads of the bolt and hole are clean and the drop of compound is not filling the whole hole.

Galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals. I assume those are AL light screws and the insert is steel?

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 9/18/2017 @ 3:23 PM *

"Galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals"...yup.That's what I'm thinking.If they're aftermarket,the pitch may NOT be exact either.It may 'feel' like it's going in...tipoff...snug and 'tight' when threading.

Are those factory bolts?If not,it could be a chemical reaction over time with the two metals.

Are you sure those bolts actually ARE the right pitch and all?

The bolts are aluminum ProBolts. This is the only place I've used a probolt where it was a problem. Usually I use the antiseize agebt they give you with the bolts but that does not seem like a good idea for fairings because they can cime loose so easily. The two bolts at the bottom of the lowers are also aluminum Probolts, same pitch$ thread size. Those go into steel brackets with locktite and no problems there at all. I would only expect a reaction between dissimilar metals.

The loctite may have taken up a thread pitch angle, where you more or less had to thread the first winds like a needle, meaning, to line up the compound taking up the thread grooves. So the initial cross-threading kept the new pitch cutting a new groove over the original threaded hole.

I think you are onto something here, Hub. I do the opposite. I put the locker at the tip so it coats the entire length by the time it is tightened in. I think I'll try your way here on in.

Galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals. I assume those are AL light screws and the insert is steel?

Nope--AL screws in the AL frame. Shouldn't be a problem between metals. I've never had a problem with the OEM steel bolts in the aluminum frame or engine either.

My normal routine has been to use a small amount of locktite on the tip of the bolt threads. Just a touch, not even a full drop. I use none at all if it seems there is already enough hardened locktite in the threads to keep the bolt tight. If the hardened Locktite feels like a nylock, no need to put more in there until it feels loose-ish coming out. I pretty much always tighten 25%-33% looser than spec on all external bolts. Fairings, I go less than snug, maybe 4-6 inch lbs on the non well nut fasteners.

Maybe I should try cleaning the locktite threads out with a cleaner tap from now on. I don't know if that is any different than a thread restoring tap which I have. If I see metal getting shaved out, that's too potent for routine cleaning.

Nobody else sees the white film on these boltholes? That's weird. Grn, I know you used Shorai batteries. I thought that might be it. I wonder if it's the heat reflecting foil on the pads reacting with the aluminum? Very strange.

Hope I won't need to heli coil or put in a thread replacement plug down the road but if I do, I guess that's a part of running an old bike.

I see the white color on there...but didn't think it was a 'film'.Just looked mainly at that bolt tip.If it's like that going all the way in,those hole threads are probably toast.That one on the left looks like it's pretty gouged up in there.The 'shavings' are going somewhere.My guess...in the threads.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/18/2017 @ 8:41 PM *

they might look a bit worse than they are because of the hardened locktite stuck in the threads.

I think when I do this, I might try starting the tap from the inside of the battery box where the threads are probably less damaged. If they're fooked, I guess I files them out and put a nut in there on the right but the solution would not be so simple on the left.

maybe the white film IS locktite. ?

Got it fixed now!! Shows you how much I have been able to ride in the last two years!

I bought a set of Lang thread restoring taps an dies.

Me:

I think when I do this, I might try starting the tap from the inside of the battery box where the threads are probably less damaged.

I removed the tap several times and washed it in mineral spirits to remove the metal shavings that came out. I also swabbed the bolthole out with Q-tips.

I applied 3 in 1 oil and threaded the tap in again until the tap felt smooth. The threads still look a little beat up but a bolt will go in and it doesn’t even feel loose.
I used LockTite on the bolt but if there is a problem with it coming loose, a little longer bolt should solve that problem. It was probably a good thing I was not able to start the tap from the back of the hole because there are at least 5 mm of untouched threads there.

Hub:

The loctite may have taken up a thread pitch angle, where you more or less had to thread the first winds like a needle, meaning, to line up the compound taking up the thread grooves. So the initial cross-threading kept the new pitch cutting a new groove over the original threaded hole.
Say if you first cleaned the old compound out of the threads with a tap, used fresh locker again, maybe it would have gone in fine. When I use locker, I run the drop way back at the threads so the initial beginning threads of the bolt and hole are clean and the drop of compound is not filling the whole hole.

Yes, I think that is the safe way to do it with the thread locking agent...if possible, apply it to the female threads below the beginning threads. That way, the threads at the top will be the correct threads and if the thread locker has established its own pitch, it doesn't matter. The bolt has already been started on the correct path and will carve through the old thread locking agent. Either that or use a thread cleaning tap and get the old LockTite out. I doubt many people bother to do that.

I will try this in the future. Thanks, Hub.

Could have been the bolt just went in crooked? IDK...this seemed to get progressively worse over two or three installations of that same bolt. Oh well, fixed now. This is one you really need to use thread locking agent on. The old dried thread locking agent seems to keep the bolthole tight for many uses but obviously that is no advantage if it establishes a thread that does not match that of the bolthole.

Me:

maybe the white film IS locktite. ?

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/27/2019 @ 8:17 AM *

...and yeah, I'm riding the 14 at my new home and loving it. I love this bike. Feels aggressive and edgy compared to the busa and sounds it too. Got a surprise wheelie hitting second gear and not even WOT!!! Been so long since I rode this bike I forgot how it feels. Seems like the first time I'm riding it. Definitely a lot lighter than the busa at this point and that is very notable in the tight corners. We have what I call corn field roads here. They go on for a mile or more perfectly straight and then there's a gnarly 90° turn with a very small radius, then another and maybe on more. Apparently following a property line. The 14 will do technical corners. That's where I get my chicken strips worn down the lowest.

I have never used loctite on any fairing bolt I dont even think its necessary as I have never had one come lose. Glad you got it fixed and you are rolling again!! Where did you get the tap kit it looks like a good one.

I googled for the taps. This set is made by a company called Lang. Not too expensive and worked well.

For the newbs, never ever EVER use lockTite on a well nut fastener or you will never get it back out.

I have never had a wellnut fastener come loose except a couple on the ram air covers. I don't tighten the well nut bolts much at all but they stay in. The fairing bolts that come loose for me are the front fender bolts and these ones that go into the frame at the back corner of the grills. No wellnuts and that is probably why they vibrate loose. If the threads on this one ever get damage beyond repair, I would probably drill that bung out and put in a well nut if the metal is not too thick for a well nut to function. Seems like there should be a well nut there anyway.

I have a rear brake disc carrier that is attached to my Carrazeria wheel by three M8 bolts. These bolts come loose but miraculously they never came out. Some thread damage must have occurred from the three bolts being just finger tight on this load bearing part. When I thread in any M8 bolt, (the original or a new one but new feels worse) it feels like this:

loose, loose, tight
loose, loose, tight...until the parts draw up together and the bolt tightens.

There's a tight spot in the threads. I threaded a new bolt in and out and it came out with some tiny aluminum chips on the threads.

Should I use a thread restoring tap on this or should I just put in new bolts with lock tight and check them. If the threads are damaged, it seems like restoring them also takes away metal. What is worse, cutting out some metal from the threads or leaving them knackered just a little bit the way they are? I mean...I can get a bolt in and tightened just fine its just that little tight spot when I turn.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/5/2020 @ 3:02 PM *

If there is enough material to tap them that'd be the way I'd go.

Tightening them down and adding Loc-Tite MIGHT work but then you might be fooked if you ever had to replace that rear disc.

Sounds like it got a bit cross threaded?

Does it get any easier to thread with some anti seize? Can you now tighten it and untighten it without thread material coming out?

If so, maybe it has cut "new" threads?

Shitty situation either way.

Hope you get it sorted.

Keep us posted.

* Last updated by: BIGO70 on 3/6/2020 @ 12:10 AM *

Tightening them down and adding Loc-Tite MIGHT work but then you might be fooked if you ever had to replace that rear disc.

Sounds like it got a bit cross threaded?

Does it get any easier to thread with some anti seize? Can you now tighten it and untighten it without thread material coming out?
If so, maybe it has cut "new" threads?

This seems to be the routine that my Foreman grill bolthole followed. Both the bolt and bolthole got majorly screwed up after took that bolt in and out a few times. I'm sure there are pictures of that early in this thread.

I think I will try the thread restoring tap before this gets worse.

Thanks BIG.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/6/2020 @ 6:55 AM *

The bolts that I've had in there are the originals that came with the CZ wheel. I ordered Ti bolts to replace them though. It did cross my mind that maybe the threads are supposed to be the way they are, Grn. CZ sprocket bolts have a special self locking thread. Maybe these are self locking too. I'll check with Core Moto, the new owner of Carrazzeria.

Like the front countershaft sprocket nut?

Oh, OK.

I thought it was the bolt holes on the wheel. I'd hate to have knackered the wheel itself up.

Instead, you are referring to the black carrier instead? (as seen in the pic)

* Last updated by: BIGO70 on 3/6/2020 @ 10:40 AM *

I thought it was the bolt holes on the wheel. I'd hate to have knackered the wheel itself up.
Instead, you are referring to the black carrier instead? (as seen in the pic)

Thanks for the assist on the pic BIG. The carrier is fine. The holes in it are unthreaded, the bolt just passes through the black carrier to draw it up to the gold wheel body. The threads are in the wheel body behind the carrier. It is the rotor carrier bolt holes in the wheel body that are knackered ever so slightly but noticeably.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/6/2020 @ 3:35 PM *

So it IS the actual bolt hole in the wheel that has issues.

You had me confused with the Quote below.

The rotor bolt holes are fine. The part in question is a disc carrier. Where that bolts to the wheel hub, those boltholes seem a little stretched or something.

So, you think there is enough material to tap them if you have to?

Maybe you won't have to actually tap them. Maybe just clean the threads up with the same size tap they are currently tapped for?

Yeah Rook.The sprocket nut is supposed to be replaced each sprocket change cause it's an elliptical.If you tighten it down by hand you can feel the 'tight'/'loose' feel of it.As for your bolt holes...I thought you were working with the factory wheel.My rotors bolts feel elliptical as well.They may not be.IDK.But they don't just 'back out' when loosening.
Go easy on those Carrozaria wheels.Like you mentioned.I'd find out first if it's normal.But you may have to figure out a way to ask it without coming right out and saying what you think might be wrong with them.It could be they're made that way...OR...a flaw in the production.They wouldn't likely care to admit that.Good Luck!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/7/2020 @ 10:40 AM *

Yeah Rook.The sprocket nut is supposed to be replaced each sprocket change cause it's an elliptical.If you tighten it down by hand you can feel the 'tight'/'loose' feel of it.

DAmn!!!! That might be why my countershaft sprocket nut was found LOOSE@!!!! Hand tight was all it was. Good thing for that retainer washer on there.

Last post on this page.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=EB2E6BDC-D56B-84E2-1D17B62DAE7BB066&page=4

Elliptical, huh? Now I remember you telling me that many years back. My SM doesn't say to replace that countershaft nut but I will be this time around. I ordered a new one and I guess I'll be using it. Thanks, Grn.

I'd find out first if it's normal.But you may have to figure out a way to ask it without coming right out and saying what you think might be wrong with them.It could be they're made that way...OR...a flaw in the production.They wouldn't likely care to admit that.Good Luck!

Perhaps the 06's didn't have those countershaft ellipticals on there.IDK.My manual says replace nut when changing sprocket.Along with the washer.I don't of course!.But I have replaced it a couple of times.Just not everytime.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/7/2020 @ 3:59 PM *

Mines 08. The SM procedure says to change the countershaft sprocket nut retainer washer. Nothing about the countershaft sprocket nut needing changing in the written procedure or the table that tells torques and remarks at the beginning of the routine maintenance chapter. The clutch removal procedure and the table say to change the clutch hub nut each time it's removed. I don't think my countershaft sprocket nut needs to be changed but I will be doing it anyway. It's been torqued twice.

OKAY!You Rook are 100%correct!lol.It doesn't need replacing everytime.I don't know how I got to thinking that.Oh well.The washer does anyway...lol.At least on the H2.