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Thread: Built engine VS Turbo??

Created on: 08/03/13 05:16 PM

Replies: 44

zx14beast


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Location: Toronto

Joined: 03/18/13

Posts: 809

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 7:40 AM

Bobby914 - I don't know what was up with the setup on that tubro bike vs. built bike, but as Romans said - maybe he was running low compression which makes for lazy down low, then BIG hit once it's spooled. Romans and I were just out for a little spin on Monday and I can tell you first hand when he pulled up beside me, then pinned it in first it was instantly on boost and layed 100' black marks in 1st, 2nd and third until he let off. The torque is just unreal. That was with a brand new shinko rear. When he was running his slick it was hooking faster and wheelie time.
Hey, speaking of which... when do I get to test Romans...?

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 8:04 AM

then pinned it in first it was instantly on boost and layed 100' black marks in 1st, 2nd and third until he let off. The torque is just unreal. That was with a brand new shinko rear. When he was running his slick it was hooking faster and wheelie time.

The slick was far superior in every way and made mapping much easier. But, Not Street Legal. Was just a matter of time before I got busted. Especially riding with you mad men lol

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13719

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 8:45 AM

I can see the air lag. Look at a windmill blade. Big, slow turning, lagging, look at my watch, where is the air? So right there is one big, slow, in the way = Lag-ability-get-going-slowpoke!

With the smaller spooling, it's spinning quicker, moving air that much faster, no lag lustear, your eyes are drying up lift already!

IMO, I think it was that easy a change from spooling to who is fooling with the word lag vs. the smaller spool? Case closed. Especially if the blades are pitch-able... Spool ohlay shit you add that moveable blade vs. a fixed blade. Extra-Linear is the word, no?

This is Triple-H, INN MO.

1. Heavy = Not pitch-able in turns. Yes you can, but not as sporty. This is giving up here and there things for this thing. That better gas mileage is a plus. The extra HP is a given and mileage drops, meaning, is the other swap for swap you keep thinking about it.

2. Heat = That is a given. To exploit HP, you need to make heat. To make lots of power, you are going to feel the heat. This too is the other trade-off. You are going to carry metal parts that will give off heat when not spooling for HP. Adding the heavy-heat comes that last part of the H'ing, aching part.

3. Have to Have it = Big buck commitment. This is going to be one reach around every time you have a 'working to clear glitch.' That means, who setup what, how long will it last is the old saying, "If you want it done right, do it yourself." Have is the have the ability to clean any glitch comes your way, or pay to have it solved. So if you are saying you are not that mechanically inclined, but your wallet is, do not end with say for argument sake, 7k is all it will take.

I think there comes this bag of 'glitches.' You have one guy in development mode to deliver a bolt on system? If I read that correctly, he's more the 'deglitcher' man. He is doing what one would do is hand build the one off is begin to bolt the parts on, and as you go, you reach around to have this or that glitch solved to finish the assembly.

I'm just saying, there are things down the road that may crack, a stress was not addressed the first time. Say something like that is the argument. Another would be a 50/50 scenario like Romes vs. 1bad. Whereas 1bad had his done. And with that said, his turbo, 'done in an engine.' So there too is 'glitch setup' and it's not just some plug and play kind of reach around. You may sacrifice the bike is that commitment too.

Like you said, would you put that kind of money into the bike, your deal, your reach around loss; do not expect someone to buy your worn out; 'why did you install one in the first place is not flog the puppy and you want how much?' Again, put yourself on the receiving end of the buy, you are looking at an old bike, maybe a turbo that needs a freshening up or say they are bulletproof and need nothing until it lets loose and now fix it. So, am I going to put in that much money to match the price of a new bike that has more development, more power a few years down the road, now turbo that and yours is more the slow loser at the track.

I'd more look at the turbo as a chunk you may not get half back from the parts [is parts] alone, let alone you try to add all the labor cost it took to reach around, have the glitches solved and all that... IF ... You are not on the wrench and socket end of it.


* Last updated by: Hub on 8/7/2013 @ 8:49 AM *



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 10:19 AM

I'd more look at the turbo as a chunk you may not get half back from the parts [is parts] alone, let alone you try to add all the labor cost it took to reach around, have the glitches solved and all that... IF ... You are not on the wrench and socket end of it

How True. Hub I looked into this before I got into the 14R. What it came down to was my thinking that the Turbo bike(or Any Bike)does not lose one cent in value until the day we go to sell it.

They are all bad investments if you look at it that way. But as I age ever more I quickly came realize I can't buy my youth back. And for me I always would have wondered what it would have been like. Now I know. Was on the bucket list lol. I don't regret one cent. Even with todays 20,000 dollar 14R I still go for my baby girl. Fun I've had on that bike has no Equal. For those of you thinking of selling your early gen's this would still be much cheaper.


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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 10:38 AM

Good write up hub. You hit ever nail on the head for me. And that is why I just can't justify spending that much more money on the bike, to than sell it in a few years and lose my ass on it. Again hub great write up it really helped me think it through.


* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/7/2013 @ 10:39 AM *



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 11:56 AM

And that is why I just can't justify spending that much more money on the bike, to than sell it in a few years and lose my ass on it.

Just riding as is will always give you peace of mind Zx. The 14R won't be changing for at least 7 years from the 2012 Model. That being said, if you change your mind enjoy front half. Always good to here what others think to help put the ole Noodle at ease.

Glad it all cleared up.

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 12:00 PM

I hope they change it sooner than 7 years. If Suzuki ever gets their act together and upgrades the busa maybe it'll start a lil war between them. It would be great for us buyers that's for sure. God in 7 years every 1000 would kill this 14r. Come on us Americans need more and more POWER BABY!!!!!!


* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/7/2013 @ 12:02 PM *



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Hub


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Posts: 13719

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 2:36 PM

Funny how things work out. My reach around was huge this year so far. Sold my nephew my truck $o used that to retool up. Bike too and that trade-in. Camera this, computer that, Woofy down this, reach around for that. Did I scrape off any bucket list? It was forced buying, or was it a planned obsolescence was the sanfoo I got into? Pulled myself out of the stone ages with the old hardware more like it. So I'm doing my part to stimulate the economy nationally and internationally call it. Call me just catching up is all. Those days of, 'if it ain't broke, then go broke' are here to stay? Nothing needed fixing. Damn if it just didn't turn obsolete right in front of your face... Nor would I turn back either.

... my thinking that the Turbo bike(or Any Bike)does not lose one cent in value until the day we go to sell it.

What, are we hitting a lot of truisms here? That is so true. Some go up in value, others you lose your shirt. A bucket list has no price. Reach in and check one off.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/07/13 4:46 PM

Yeah a turbo would be nice though. Wouldn't need to buy another bike ever again looking for more power that's for sure. Just got done talking to Cblast offline and my god my man has a WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE. I wish I could hang out with him one day and have a beer. I would learn more in that day then I would know right now. Great guy, if you need some knowledge see him or hub.



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Cblast


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Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 8:49 AM

Thank you for that ZX. Really sir! It was a great discussion! Got me thinkin all kinds of things! We discussed the turbo option and every point that you made about the low boost (say 5-6lbs), given a low spin up speed of say 3000, should produce bout what, 270-280. Imagine how hard you could pull 4th gear!!! It would feel like fing 2nd!!!! I think we also hit on some awesome points about that 10r dude. Totally uncorked the 10r would be crazy just cause Of the weight to power! I sure do wish a few of us lived closer together so we could get all this sorted not over a phone! :))



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

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Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 11:03 AM

I don't know C if you lived to close to me I would go broke trying to keep up with you!!



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Bobby914


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Location: Chester, VA

Joined: 04/19/13

Posts: 1859

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 2:59 PM

Very cool from both of you and now my research has changed, he did have a larger turbo, great info and I'm still learning this turbo thing but spooling from 2500 certainly gets my attention big time as I don't like to wait on my power, lol. long as I don't have to tinker every weekend just to ride Im happy!!



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

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Bobby914


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Location: Chester, VA

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RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 3:10 PM

By the way been looking at carpenter for my 01 Busa and the 14, basically because I'm not a racing junkie but I just a little more power than the guy sitting next ot me at the red light, meaning he can't see the boost gauge or turbo hanging around, just to bust his ass for fun and leave him thinking, but 2500 spool up really has a brotha thinkin bout that, like I said I don't like to wait on power but don't want to tinker just to ride, turn key and kick ass is my motto, lmao



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 3:23 PM

Bobby my god man we could be twins. Everything you just said in your last post I swear I could have wrote myself. I have NEVER AGREED with everything every word someone wrote like I did on your last post. Seriously thats my contention right now, just want a lil more power for the street to secure my top dog bike. But don't want to have to tinker with a turbo from time to time. My god man you read my mind dude.


* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/8/2013 @ 3:23 PM *



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Cblast


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Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/08/13 11:15 PM

Z, Bobby, you guys have read THIS RIGHT?



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

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Cblast


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Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/11/13 9:56 AM



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/11/13 10:28 AM

And you do have to Tinker if you want them to live. Heads cams as a package, Carpenter or jim at CNC sounds like the ticket you guys want. No hassle and you have the edge.

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/11/13 10:34 AM

Yeah romans you are right. And yeah C I read that article awhile ago, notice what he said about removing the flies!!!!!!



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Cblast


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Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/11/13 10:50 AM

Z, C'mon man, I was tryin to be subtle!!! Lol!

I was hoping to talk with you romes! I'll shoot ya an email!!! Just got wrapped in family stuff! Wife is on leave this week, so camping, planting, drive in movies, rides for ice cream, etc., ad nauseum! :)))


* Last updated by: Cblast on 8/11/2013 @ 10:51 AM *



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

Link | Top | Bottom

Bobby914


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Location: Chester, VA

Joined: 04/19/13

Posts: 1859

RE: Built engine VS Turbo??
08/11/13 2:31 PM

been lurking on the carpenter website for a long time and loving the stealth of the head cam package, just have to get over someone else doing work on my bike panic mode . Im close to Jersey got some folks in Newark Deleware so I will ride for up to see you ZX no problem only a few hours away.



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

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