Hi everybody, new on the forum (although have been reading it for a year now) and decided to turn to the gurus here for some advice. Hub, Rook, Grn14 et al. Your opionions are thus requested :D

Its still winter here in Finland but I'm starting to get ready for the spring in good time ;) so I'm doing some maintenance work and some digging on some of the issues I had last summer with the bike. . .

First of all, I think there was a variation on the idle speed of the bike with respect to air temperature or engine (coolant) temp. When the bike was first started in the morning it would start the auto fast idle sequence normally everytime and eventually when the preset coolant temp was reached it would lower the idle to the preset normal idle, but always a bit lower (<1000 rpm) than normal spec idle. Then after a long ride when the engine got hot (4-5 bars on the display) - especially on a hot day - the idle seemed to get higher, enough for the clutch to spin the transmission so that the first gear would engage violently like KRRRR CLANK!!! Always with a cold engine the first would go in very nicely, only a minor clunk from the trans like my previous bikes not like its gonna explode.

I know having read that the idle speed is meant to be set when the engine is hot to 1050-1150 rpm but is there supposed to be such a high variation? And if I were to set it to spec 1050 rpm when hot I'm thinking that it might drop too low when cold. So far stalling hasnt been an issue even when cold, I dont remember it stalling ever. Is it possible that since the bike is still almost new (7450 km on the odo) and taken out of the crate last summer, could this be a normal breakin symptom that its still a bit tight and maybe the idle is set a bit high at the factory because of the breakin? Any ideas?

* Last updated by: ilarik on 2/29/2012 @ 5:47 AM *

Lowering your idle to 950 or 1000 will greatly help the 1st gear clunk...but they all do it.As you mentioned..."hot'...yes...you want to adjust that when she's warmed up good and running nicely.See how the cold idle comes back down at first startup again when she's totally cold(after you've made the adjustments and she's sat overnight or something).950 may be too low for you after the cold start cycle.I don't think anything is wrong with your idle kind of moving like you say.Temps can do that.But she should really be staying at a particular idle.How's your cable free play.If you've got it turned all the way out(no free play)...you're gonna have some idling fluctuations.With that few of miles...I doubt if your throttlebodies need synching.So I wouldn't even entertain that idea.That could be a culprit IF you had a lot more miles on her.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/28/2012 @ 12:57 AM *

Hi guys and thanks a lot so far!

Okay so what I'll do is the following: warm the engine up thoroughly, up to 4-5 bars temp on the gauge, adjust idle with the knob to 1050 rpm when hot, check the next day and if it wont drop below 950 rpm, all okay. But if it will stall after the warmup sequence, there is something to be adjusted, right? I'll check the air filter, but I'll doubt it'll be too dirty because of the miles but I'll check anyway. The throttle cable freeplay I'll check as well, but if I remember correctly there was plenty of play on the throttle grip last summer...

So Hub if I got you right, you said that if there would be a vacuum leak somewhere the effects would be more than mere idle fluctuations? Is it possible that the tb sync would change when the bike was sitting (its a 2010 model bike sold to me out of the crate May 2011)? Oh and what did you mean by the injectors closing? You mean I should use some injector cleaning agent in the fuel?

Grn14, you said that the temps can do some fluctuation to the idle speed. Is this because the zx14 (as of 2010/2011) did not have an ECU controlled ISC valve to actively control the amount of idle air to be passed to the throttle bodies, like the 2007-> gixxers and 2008-> busas (and of course the 2012 zx14...) Instead a manually controlled idle air bypass screw is used like the previous generation Suzukis. Is this why, or should the manual bypass also keep the idle?

Hub, you said that you run 900 rpms idle and if I keep it to 950 - 1050 rpm it should be enough. Some people at the bikeland's zx14.com forum suggested that a low idle speed (<1000 rpm) would lower the oil pressure too low and hurt the top end eventually, but I too am skeptical about this, as one would think that 900 rpms would circulate the oil good enough, but I guess this does vary beetween engine designs as how quick the oil pump spins relative to crank...

But I'm okay with it if the idle can be kept to a reasonable range with relatively few adjustments, so that it wouldn't stall and the first gear would go in without wearing out prematurely (or waking up the neihgbours...). Do you guys have to adjust your idle frequently? Like when the ambient temp gets especially high or low?

* Last updated by: ilarik on 2/28/2012 @ 5:34 AM *

The only time I really 'had' to adjust my idle...was when my Muzzy Timing wheel loosened up....THAT was a real circus there.Other than that...I did reset mine lower for the 'clunk' factor....it helped some.I think I kept mine right about 1000 rpms.It never really changed on it's own.Not really.Minor up and down at times from the throttlebodies needing adjustment(once in 51,000 miles).But that was it.It shouldn't be 'hunting' while idling.The injector cleaning...that sounds like a good place to start just because.It's easy...and 'almost' free.

I used that 'concentrated' GUMOUT injector cleaner.Probably way too large a dose..but I used half the bottle,filled my tank...ran that down with some good high end runs...then repeated with the rest of the bottle...I think it helped keep the carbon and stuff out of the engine?My plugs always looked good.

You've got a virtually new bike there...could be the engine and stuff is still wearing in some?

It should not be idling above the set 1050 I don't think .Not after she's warmed up good.Does it still have the secondaries in there?

It would definitely be a LONG SHOT if something was going on with your TPS.In fact...I wouldn't even touch those sensors...they're factory set....you mess with those...bye bye warranty.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/28/2012 @ 2:19 PM *

Okay, adding 'run injector cleaner' to the todo list :)

Grn14, how much did the lower idle help the clunk and did you notice any differences with a cold idle (right after auto fast idle quits) on a cold day and a 'warm' idle after the engine got hot? I was just browsing the gixxer forums and apparently some previous gen gixxers (without ECU idle speed control) also were reported to idle lower when cold. Could this be simply because the cold engine is 'harder' to run (with higher oil viscosity, clearances etc) than when warm and since there isnt any idle speed control (other than the warmup fast idle) the engine gets the same amount of idle air and thus fueling, according to intake pressure (MAP sensor) - regardless of engine state or atmospheric conditions???

Also, just to clarify, I know that all bikes clunk when you select first gear from neutral :) all of my previous ones did as well. Its just that I noticed that with this one the same sound is much louder and the engagement very violent. So I started diggin up and found out about the relation to the idle speed (wet clutches always have drag).

I even did some digging on other forums as well and it can be amazing what kind of statistics you can gather just by using google. For example using searches like "site:gixxer.com first gear clunk", "site:r1-forum.com first gear clunk" and last but not least "site:hayabusa.org first gear clunk" or some other variation of key words. By comparing the hit count on those searches, its an easy conclusion that everybody complains about it :D But still, even though its impossible to get rid of the clunk entirely, it should be kept to a minimum, right?

To add to the previous message, yes the secondaries are in place and the bike is (with the exception of a tank pad) in fully stock condition. EDIT: I'm almost sure I saw about 1300 rpm idles with the factory settings last summer.

You may be onto something Grn14, again :) The TPS I was also wondering about and its a shame its not as easy to calibrate as in a gixxer or in a busa using the 'dealer mode' in the ECU by s simple jumper wire as per service manual. But shouldnt this thing have some kind of similar function, if not so easily user accessible but at least in the Kawasaki Diagnostic System that the dealers have, so if i were to take it to a dealer and ask them to check the TPS calibration it shouldbt be a problem?

Also, it just might be a question of breaking it in properly. I didnt use the 'motoman' method (shame on me, I know) my breakin was a more of an easy variety, just a lot of different rpms and gears and constantly varying the revs by accelerating and decelerating, this was how I was instructed at the shop. I did let it warm up properly before the first ride and afterwards as well and also when parking I let the engine run for a while before killing it (to let the temperatures equalize, just by intuition). It got hot but didnt overheat. So in retrospect, I guess I did everything else correctly but maybe I was being too easy on the engine. It hasnt been dynoed yet, so I have no idea how well the rings have seated - other than it doesnt burn any oil! At least not any noticeable amounts. The oil changes were at 922 km (first service) and at 5996 km (6 thousand km service).

* Last updated by: ilarik on 2/28/2012 @ 3:15 PM *

BTW...LOVE that color scheme on there!Euros are very nicely painted.I think your bike is fine.If it's not fluctuating like several hundred rpms while idling...it's most likely okay.That TPS....I wouldn't get into that.Even from the dealer.It's virtually guaranteed that it's okay.Just sounds like maybe a fuel quality issue or something.Something simple.It sat for a while.Probably just needs to get out and romp for a bit.Open er up.Blow any crap outta there.Your break-in sounds fine.The clunk...no getting around that unfortunately.Lowering the idle will reduce it some.Just so she doesn't stall out when ya let off the throttle at any time.It'll be fine.Your bike is normal.Probably pretty cold over there mostly....maybe you can lower your viscosity a bit.That could probably help with the engine idling deal.The manual does give alternate viscosities for where you live.

BTW...1300 rpm idle is WAY TOO HIGH...unless your Euro version needs that...IDK.Lucky you didn't break any trans parts shifting into 1st with THAT speed!!!!!No wonder she 'clunked'!!!LOL!!!

I don't think you were too easy on the engine.Better to have (maybe...who knows) a loss of 1 HP up top than to have blowing oil out your rings!I know a friend who has an 08 Busa..broke it in hard...you know...all the hoopla about setting the rings and such...ya...5,000 miles later....his bike was blowin oil big time.IDK....sounds like you're pretty tuned in to having a feel for your bike...the engine and all.You most likely got a really good bike.Sa'll good.I wouldn't worry.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/28/2012 @ 3:30 PM *

Thanks a lot for the support! And I also like the colour scheme, I was originally thinking of getting a black one but this one was the last one left so I 'had to settle for it', how awful :D Well of course there were a lot of 2011 models for sale at a meager 5200 euros (about 6k usd) more ;) the deal for this one from old stock was amazing!

EDIT: THANK GOODNESS someone else agrees with me :D my dad was just thinking I was being too critical as always.
I also thought it felt like breaking the tranny when engaging first, since all my other bikes did the 'clunk' andI didnt care since I knew it was a part of the deal with a motorcycle transmission, but last summer when hot the clunking got so loud that it made me nervous, also it was embarrassing having people turn their heads :D Lets hope its simply a breakin thing and will loosen up. I was even thinking that maybe they had set the idle higher at the factory becsuse of the breakin and it is supposed to be readjusted at the first service. Maybe if I'll just run it hot and set it to 1050 rpm it wouldnt drop too low when cold either anymore. Fingers crossed.

So now it would seem appropriate for me to segway into oil, hopefully not creating a huge oil flame war :D
I was thinking about ordering some Motul 300v 10w-40 from Germany (eBay). It currently has Castrol Power1 Racing 10w-50 (fully synth) and it might be just my imagination but after the previous oil change the transmission feeled a bit more stiff shifting gears (w/o clutch) than with the castrol 10w-40 gps (semisynth) that was there before.

So Motul it is or any other good ideas? The transmission seems to be the thing most people say oil change affects the most since engine oil has to double as transmission oil. But hasically any quality full synthetic with the apropriate ratings should suffice? But I guess there can be some differences in how well the oil keeps its qualities with time and stuff, right? So without starting any war, a poll would be interesting what people use and did it work.

* Last updated by: ilarik on 2/28/2012 @ 3:55 PM *

I've religiously used Motul in my zx's.I tried a few of those more 'exotic' oils...can't remember the brands right off...but they did not hold up near as well as the Motul(Kawasaki brand).10/40 7100 full syn in mine.The shift quality seems to always coincide with the recommended oil change interval...strange...but true.

Amazing, any idea about whether the 300v is any different, more exoensive at least. Msybe I should just get the 7100, as it is a bit cheaoer but still quality full synthetic. The 'shifting' quality is very important to me as I tend to think that they all give enough protection for the engine.

Grn14, did you have any 'ticking' from your (I believe now previous zx14) like valve clearsnce loose or somrthing. I had this light tick coming from the top end and while it wasnt very loud, irritating nevertheless. My service mechanic dismissed it as normal (for kawasakis) and one of my friends told me it sounds like a (normal) lifter tick since it has solid lifters. The blackbird has solid lifters as well as the engine architecture is also very similar to the zx14, right? Last summer I got to compare to my friends 07 blackbird, and it was way more quiet. Breakin maybe, is the clearance excessive enough at the beginning for a valve to tick?

Just use a good synthetic oil. Kawasakis always seem to have a manly "clunk" when they go into first gear. Make sure your idle is set right and don't worry about it.

Mad

Occassionally...when ambient temps were 'right'(or wrong IDK)...she would tick lightly...for a few minutes...then be quiet again.It was normal.My valves were dead on at 24,000 miles.First and only check I ever did with em.I think that 300V is Dino oil.Not synthetic...or it may be an ester blend...IDK.

Okay, big thanks to all so far, I'm 'closing' this topic for now and starting a new one on slipons, but if anyone has something to add to my symptoms (higher than spec idle when hot => 1st gear CLUNK!!!, ticking when warm) please...all appreciated!!!