Hey again...

I'm thinking of starting to 'improve' on my ZZR1400/ZX14 for the next summer. Slipons would be my first mod. Reason would be not the usual one, since it has enough power (and torque, even though low end is 'soft' compared to busa, but still enough). The reason for me to consider slipons is twofold, sound and HEAT. I know, what a looney, doesn't care about power, right

But seriously speaking, since the gen2 zx14 has THREE cats meaning one in each muffler and one in the collector, the heat is really getting to my nerves and I was even thinking that maybe since the cats warmup to several hundred degrees celcius, even the engine heat may be affected!?! So if I were to just get rid of the original mufflers and install Leo Vince EVO2 Euro-approved slipons, see http://www.leovince.com/en/catalog-kawasaki/terminale_ovale_omologato_evolution_ii_passaggio_standard_zzr_1400_i_e_2008/10564 and just leave the oem headers and thus fuel mapping to stock (no PC3/PCV!). If I have understood correctly this would greatly help the exhaust heat since two of the cats would be gotten rid of and still the bike would be in fully road legal and also the warranty should not be affected since the fuel mapping would be unchanged (Leo Vince claims that the mufflers are developed for the stock mappings!), I will of course confirm this fact from the dealer before installing (or having them install the pipes...since its under warranty).

Also the the second point would be purely aesthetic, the sound. The oem mufflers are SILENT, there is no sound coming from them. Now I like my bike having reasonable sound levels so that I don't have to wake up the neighbours when going for a night ride, but still that thing is so quiet that every little tick from the engine gets so much presence, maybe I'm 'hearing noises' ... ... but seriously, the it sounds 'unbalanced' since the engine isn't 'silent' but the mufflers are, it just doesn't sound good to me. Opinions are appreciated from you who still have oem mufflers (or slipons for that matter) does your engine 'tick' when warm, I mean relative to all the other bikes which have solid valve lifters, like the gixxers, busa, fireblades, blackbird (surprisingly quiet that one...) etc.

Currently it is in entirely stock condition, so the only 'improvement' I have done so far is adding a tank pad and strapping the tipover sensor so that it wouldn't rattle (thanks everyone, btw for that clue...). So the very next thing is (see previous thread if interested) to lower the idle speed to spec 1050 rpm when HOT, so that the 1st gear would engage nicely (higher idle => higher trans main shaft speed => CLUNK), this seems to be a simple fix and IMO should be kept to a closer eye on scheduled maintenance at the dealers too. Problem solved.

I always recommend a ful system. Don't bother with slipons unless you get them used and very cheap so you won't mind tossing when you discover full system is the way to go.

The ticking may be th etip over sensor. It can be tightened by puttin a couple washers under the bolt heads. Ithink they may have fixed that after 08, IDK Very easy to check. Little gray box below the windscreen.

stuck some little plastic washers under the bolt heads to tighten up and stop rattle.

My CAm Chain also rattles when the engine is cold. APE manual cam chain tensioner is the fix.

Those are the serious noises. Other than that, I'd say you have to live with a certain amount of mechanical noise. Will prolly run a bit quieter as the valve clearance wears down.

Get a louder exhaust will help.

Rook, thanks a lot for your input! However I already did do a fix on the tip over sensor last summer because I could hear it buzz when riding, but does it 'tick' at idle too? I'll have to get the windshield off and listen...

This 'thicking' I'm talking about, its a bit hard to describe it of course (in text) but it seems to be louder than the injectors (I took the cover off and listened, could hear the injectors fire off but they were relatively quiet), but still doesn't sound anything 'serious' like a rod bearing or stuff, but what do I know ... just annoying.

The cam chain tensioner seems to be an universal issue with all modern bikes. However I don't seem to notice the 'rattle' when cold. The engine sounds the same when cold or hot, as a matter of a fact the ticking is more noticeable when the engine is hot without the fast idle warmup mode. Also when revving up the engine the ticking starts to turn into a buzz (its speed is relative to rpm) and eventually drowns into the engine noise (doesn't grow any louder with higher rpms maybe even turns more quiet). However at idle and low rpms (1-3 k rpm) its really noticeable tick tick tick tickety tickety and with more rpms bzzzz.

So is it possible for the cam chain tensioner to working at cold idle but kinda stuck between two notches (as it apparently has a ratchet mechanism to hold the level of tension...) and should kinda get it to click to the next notch?

One of my friends, who seems to be a guru with cars told me that the sound came from the valve lifters and continued that the same kind of noise can be heard from honda civics for example (which have solid lifters instead of hydraulic). So Rook, if you compare your 2008 ZX14 engine to your K8 Hayabusa engine, does the ZX tick louder than the busa from the valve train? If I'm to understand correctly there shoudn't be anything hugely different in the design of the two engines (the busa has titanium valves and lighter valve springs, but otherwise the same, right?). The people in the hayabusa.org forum seem to have a concencus (see http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gen-ii-busa-information/114871-ticking-noise-low-rpms-help-please.html that even the gen2 busa has a noisy valve train, so does the zx14 have an even louder one .

Also Rook, why do you say that the slipons should be tossed making way for a full system? I know that the slipons do not contribute noticeably to the power output since the header (and one cat) still remains. But since they do lose weight, and get rid of two of the cats in the mufflers and thus should prevent some burn injuries I also had last summer (in my legs, not nice at all!). So does the installing of the slipons make the bike any worse in any kind, maybe screwing with the fuel injection too much so that a PCIII/PCV install (and thus the O2 _optimizer_) to cheat the OEM ECU into close loop adjusting the AFR into 13.6 instead of 14.7 and trimming the fuel in the open loop area (> 60% throttle and >6000 rpm, or so I have read) to correct for the changes in the exhaust. The Leo Vince slipons which I were considering are marketed (by the manufacturer) to suit the stock bike and thus stcok fuel injection settings, so is this just marketing BS and basically a PC is required anyway...

BUT, I would be interested in installing a full system and a PCV + O2 optimizer IF the engine heat could be reduced by getting rid of the all the cats and installing a 'straight' pipe. Also I would have to check with the dealer that the warranty would not be affected, I cant afford to lose the warranty.

Sorry for this long rant, I'm frustrated I know...

Excellent, this is just the kind of discussion I was hoping for! Life seems brighter now

For first things, Hub, can you explain to me why would TIGHT valves cause the tick? I have heard from many people that tight valves (out of spec clearance in the tight side) don't make any sound and only the LOOSE clearance valves make sound. Now I'm confused. I have also heard that in these bikes (and all the other shim under bucket lifter design sportbikes) the clearances only get tighter along the way, not looser since the valve seat wears down and thus the valve stem rises and causes the clearance between the lifter and cam lobe to get lower, right? Also in the 'older' design rocker arm lifters such as the 1980's and early 1990's bikes which still had them the clearance can get looser (because of the rocker arm). This is what I know from listening to the 'bigger boys'.

And secondly, but no less importantly, the bike only has 7450 km in its odo and it was bought new by me last summer (May 15th) directly out of the crate as a 2010 leftover - 0 km on the odo as I left the dealer. And the next valve clearance check is scheduled at 42000 km (as per european kawasaki service schedule, i believe its like 24000 km in the US). So this makes me wonder how on earth could the clearances be off practically from the factory with only one summers ride, and I believe it made the same sounds from the beginning, it didn't take long for me to notice but at the beginning thought it was just normal and waited it to clear up as it would start to 'loosen up' with miles (or km, in here...).

Thirdly, the point of me considering the slipons is still not because of additional horsepower, it would be enough for me actually not to lose any HP because of the slipons. The hot catalytic converters is the main reason for me to wanting to get rid of the stock pipes.

And lastly Hub, I have to actually correct you on the O2 sensor thingy, since the european model bikes seem to have (having learned this too from the 'bigger boys') a narrow band O2 sensor in the exhaust collector near the larger cat. Many people had difficulties in the beginning (like two or three years ago) when they tried to install a power commander to adjust the fuel mapping after installing an exhaust or stuff. It appears to be that the ECU has a quite wide closed loop area in its operation (the bikeland.org zx14 forum people said that it was as large as 0-60% TPS and 0-6000 RPM, if I remember correctly...) and trying to tweak the mixture with a PC in this area would result in failure since the ECU would try to circumvent any changes since its running in closed loop and started to interfere.

It took a while apparently for Dynojet to come up with a solution to this as the O2 eliminator they had didn't resolve the issue. This was apparently because just 'elimnating' the O2 sensor made the ECU not function at all since it was expecting an oscillating singnal from an actual narrowband O2 sensor - the mixture oscillating between lean and rich, lambda < 1 and lambda > 1 and thus resulting in at least an FI error and perhaps a failsafe mode in the ECU lowering performance as they usually have a 'limp home' mode in case a sensor fails. But the end result was that eliminating the stock O2 sensor completely would not work and Dynojet marketed an O2 'optimizer' circuit which is to be connected in conjunction with the stock O2 sensor left in place. The purpose of this module is apparently to make the stock ECU operating in closed circuit mode to maintain the AFR in 13.6 instead of 14.7, by tweaking the stock O2 sensor signal somehow. If in doubt, please read http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?TID=61664&FID=27.

just a thought here b4 you start tearing into the valve train check your header pipes on my 08 i thought i had a valve ticking it even sounded like it was coming from that area, turned out that my header pipes were just loose (finger loose) don't cost you anything to check them out

^^^ I 2nd that, Scott. ^^^

I put on a full system with only 90 miles on the odo, and was able to remove the factory header without a wrench.

Okay, thats good info guys!

If I remember correctly I already had my mechanic check the bolts (incl the header bolts) at least once, but who knows, maybe they're still loose somewhere. Is it possible too that in the beginning they get loose more often and have to be checked into periodically?

What kind of sound does the exhaust leak make, compared to normal, i.e the bolts tensioned? Dogo and Scott, do your bikes tick any at idle? I mean when compared to any other modern solid lifter valvetrain sportsbike of course...

And Dogo when you put your full system on, did you also put a power commander on, or was the stock mapping rich enough to stand a full system install. Usually this is definitely not the case, but I have heard that the ZX14 Gen2 (2008->) is mapped way rich from the factory (maybe to faciliate for an open exhaust???). Here in Europe we have - as an official accessory - Akrapovic slipons, for a mere 1870 euros , that is over 2000 USD...L O L.

EDIT: I should have read your signatures, it seems both of you have installed power commanders.

EDIT2: Can you check all the header bolts without for example removing the radiator? It seems quite crowded in there...

* Last updated by: ilarik on 3/6/2012 @ 10:35 AM *

If I remember correctly I already had my mechanic check the bolts (incl the header bolts) at least once, but who knows, maybe they're still loose somewhere. Is it possible too that in the beginning they get loose more often and have to be checked into periodically?

Sure it is... It's hot down there... The expansion and contraction from heat cycling will surely cause some things to loosen up. I'm sure checking those flange nuts is supposed to be a part of the first (600mile) service, but that doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes get overlooked... and in the case of my bike, had I waited until 600miles, I have no doubt that a few of those nuts would have been gone.

What kind of sound does the exhaust leak make, compared to normal, i.e the bolts tensioned?

tick, tick, tick, tick, tick...

Dogo and Scott, do your bikes tick any at idle? I mean when compared to any other modern solid lifter valvetrain sportsbike of course...

Nothing outta the ordinary... But they don't call them Klackasakis for nothin'. lol

And Dogo when you put your full system on, did you also put a power commander on, or was the stock mapping rich enough to stand a full system install. Usually this is definitely not the case, but I have heard that the ZX14 Gen2 (2008->) is mapped way rich from the factory (maybe to faciliate for an open exhaust???).

You may not need a PC... but you want one.
Not only will it give you optimal hp and/or fuel economy, but smooth fueling (ie:throttle transitions) is the real benefit.
BTW: Like Rook mentioned... I also think slip ons are a waste... particularly on 2008-2011's, as there is a cat in the collector on those years.

Can you check all the header bolts without for example removing the radiator? It seems quite crowded in there...

Yep... a little tight, but can be done.

Its a easy job to remove the 3rd cat, hers a how to
http://www.zx14r.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3140