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Thread: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy

Created on: 02/16/10 02:37 AM

Replies: 14

Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13724

I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/16/10 2:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GNgulpvLAA I want you to decide. Wee-wee do the reporting. Ring it's little neck out @ 10k miles without a pig in site. I mean, sight down the hill and that is closed lean ~ High RPM LEAN = No Harm.

I am running up and down that hill more than a few times. If I need a little burst of load and lean on the tune, this is the place. I had one guy run his video on the fast forward, send it to me. WOT he does not see, is that if you shrink the time, you don't have to sit waiting for the pops. That is one example.

These are throttle cuts, where I think the bike should have seized being so lean. I've used 4° advanced in so many ways. Used the stock pick up wheel the same way. The bike is running clean all the way up without a stumble. This is more I pick up all the bits of pop, the static, the missed shifts, the missed line with traffic. The rev up, the stick it in gear, load it up the hill without the subs or flies. The 10k mile history of this bike is without subs for most of it's abused life. I've run with a 4-in-1 alone. This pipe was gutted. Rode that around for awhile but found it too loud for the neighbors. Corked it down with a muffler bearing to more throw the fallacy of this whole lean out my flies, cry for a map, "I need that muffler bearing map." You've seen those peppered [map me] wherever you go threads, right?

My bike is stock with both pipes. You still hear that 4-in-1 rasp of the one gutted pipoe, so you know I'm at a different note as if this would cause fear, you open the bike up with an aftermarket pipe for the street. You might be new to the 14, or came back to ride from years not riding like myself. You read all these theories about performance mods. You read one thing and the other contradicts the other. This will continue to no avail I'm sure.

I sure questioned that lean deal from day one. Especially when I was beating the first Gen 14's about the same as this little throttle jollies bike I'm on. Well, I had the other 14 without the air cleaner in it before I threw that test mule away. Could not keep the front end down. Just think if I pulled the filter on this bike [which I have] and nothing came of it. I could have leveled the camera the way I had it running in the vid if I removed the element I bet. But the hard braking with one brake did it in. I had it all set as you can see it was there setting up for the corner in the beginning of the flick.

Once I hit all that bad road, ran up to the apex then hit the brake, that's how slow I'm going is itching to use the whole road but I hold the lines being it's that slow. Wouldn't you say the low speed, the heavy hand would cook that engine already? Don't drag bikes blow up in the 1/4 being all tuned too lean? I have 10k with seasonal temps thrown at it. Hot days are lean days. Cold days are dense. Two tuning ranges the bike has seen. One supposedly leaner than the other season. The bike is running flawless with all the abuse with flies out. It's more you listen to the rpm ranges where lean should have happened, call the tow truck.

There was someone who said you will spend thousands on the bike to build HP. That is so true. But if you are that 14 rider that just wants a pipe and flies out, not be bothered with the tech, or the money is an issue, whatever the situation; The lean scare is just an opinion without data. Speaking about data, you watch OTT any? They discussed a hack for the Honda 1000, said they had the sniffer show the same fuel trim, just the ignition changed. So said this one guy on the show. But that's another thread altogether.

What you might want to do is participate in the lean is mean part of the thread. Help make it sticky-able for others to read, not just me and what I bring to the table. What I present is that lean/fly by wire is kind of easy to understand. Does my bike sound like it needs a piggy? So, if you are so wound up with the snow on the road, no mon for goodies, run WOT chew rung out the flat out if you do not have a piggy is not hold back on the throttle position. Year good to go.

"Come Get Me"



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Monster14


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RedRaiderland...lubbock tx

Joined: 03/30/09

Posts: 289

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/16/10 2:03 PM

And then?



09 ZX14 MONSTER ENERGY EDITION
K&N, pcV, full Brocks, 16t Vortex, Muzzy fan, roaring toyz lowered and stretched,EK green chain,Ivans block offs,green LEDs

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13724

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/16/10 4:32 PM

And then I find that youtube dyno of a stock 14 vs. a Busa with pipe and PC get blown away, you take that piggy money and put it towards the kid's college tuition... "An den, an den?" And then along comes Mary...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RaLEVmuM4o



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DEK


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Location: Yadkinville NC

Joined: 05/18/09

Posts: 28

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/21/10 12:33 AM

Man you must have done some good drugs back in the day. Whew!

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DrHardin


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right now Germany

Joined: 07/09/09

Posts: 51

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/21/10 12:37 AM

^^lol thats what i have always thought that of hub i picture yoda mixed with cheech


* Last updated by: DrHardin on 2/21/2010 @ 12:39 AM *



'09 ZX-14 Monster Edition

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/21/10 5:31 PM

^^lol thats what i have always thought that of hub i picture yoda mixed with cheech

Hub you must post a pic now. That's some funny shit right there.


I can't get the image out of my head... Bad brain, bad. lol

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Hub


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RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/21/10 8:10 PM

Here is Yoda mixed with Cheech is zig-zags.



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buck20


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Location: Peoria, Arizona

Joined: 03/12/09

Posts: 325

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/23/10 12:18 AM

You need a Piggy!


* Last updated by: buck20 on 3/22/2010 @ 4:43 AM *



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harleyzx1400


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Cape Town, South Africa

Joined: 04/08/09

Posts: 253

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/23/10 3:47 AM

My mate has an 06 with no flies, no Power Commander and it goes as good as mine. His is better in a roll-on but he is lighter. A Power Commander, would I do it again? Hell NO! Not worth the effort for normal street riding. Fuel consumption is virtually identical to my mates, so no score there. Only score is on top end, but how often do you do that?



07 ZX 1400, full Arata system, BMC filter, Power Commander,

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buck20


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Location: Peoria, Arizona

Joined: 03/12/09

Posts: 325

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
02/26/10 1:11 AM

In order to get your moneys worth from the power comander you have to get a custom map using a dyno. Mine realy never ran right using down loaded maps they all made the bike run too rich. The guy that tuned mine said dont mess with the secondary flys keep the stock air filter and just use a good 4 into one exhaust (I put on a full race tit. Micron set up) and go two teeth up on the rear sprocket with a speedo healer. This thing blows my mates off the road!


* Last updated by: buck20 on 2/26/2010 @ 1:20 AM *



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Hub


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Posts: 13724

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
03/19/10 8:31 AM

I keep watching that needle on the AFR meter, notice that bike does not lean out on accel. There are two 'lift-leans,' that I would think might work with fuel mileage and/or track work.

Since I am on that bike with WOT after WOT, throwing data to it, I can see the hot set for max mileage is leave the tre off. You will see a lift happen and she swings to 18. That is the soft set. I toggle the other GPS wire, she is now set in the hard and stops at 16.5.

What those two numbers mean to me read, if I run without pig and just use the GPS, I am out of the limiter and now set in the hard I lift she wets the bike down, dumps the tank out, she keeps flowing you knowing the lower the number the richer the set.

Set the bike up all stock, leave it alone, she bangs, she bangs #18 and that means lean, meaning, she shuts down the bladder, leaves more gas in the tank. Make sense? If you want to track/race and run a little fatter, then run the tre/GPSet... N = 16.5 AFR ~ Hard set/rich.

Either way; one needs no pig, nor the hard. You go farther on the fuel bar if you stay stock, meaning, no code set. You guys keep throwing labels on me and I am still learning in the curves as I go. One tells me I have no clue what I am doing with this FI. Another says the master has spoken and I am fumbling along with this, stepping over those labels is finding it hard to find the steps to FI is then step up and you explain it then...



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Hub


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Posts: 13724

RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
04/27/10 11:22 AM

I had an interesting conversation with, wrongway of doing things; if you think blue and I have pit issues.

It seems I have a huge issue tuning this bike up. I am really chasing straws now. I'm to the point of throwing parts at it, sans catching some 14 on the road and flag them down, we swap ECU's for a few feet. That is all I need. OK, say about 200 yards like A.J. gets out of the car and tells the guy what's wrong with his Indy sled.

Since that is not about to happen soon, I am back to swapping out the entire tune and start all over again. That means, I have the wrapped pipe with the 02 on that '08 header. I have another set of stock cans, deja vu all over again and return those to stock, no cheater side to effect the tune.

Besides, I'm just playing with the bike. I'll have fun watching the WB make some or no effect on the wrapped tune. That stuff is coming off just for weight principals once the data is in. I'm don't need to turn the PAIR off, because I'm trying to tune it with that in play.

This swap will tell me one of two things. The one color set of injectors are too rich and this is why I am off the scale just cruising along? I keep hearing that 330/440cc difference and I am wondering if I am using too much color? Shit, I don't know.

Now, if this just sprays better and is still rich, WOTheWATT does that tell ya. With the '08 dual option action, I can tie the subs open. I can install the remote stepper. I can now dual tune or more, watch or download the WB on a 'session.'

Yeah, and I think I'm back to dual WB boxes. I can now pull over, clip on the remote, mess with the sub combos, session up two boxes in one loop. Go to the guy I owe and bug his ass just for grins. Tell him WOT I found or more, keep it to myself, cause and effect, no one listens to, Turtle.

Butt I have plenty of time. I'm in no rush the way this bike runs now. I need to video the different tune and match the other notes. That new ratio'd air bubble just tones a new note. Beat those Linears at their own game.



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Hub


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RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
05/10/10 12:15 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78u8ruPFAVI One more time... I'm again in the R&D tuning. Sun was going down. I had a no window of time yesterday for dialing in a decent tune. The loop this time; no fly, with cutter. You can't tell if you are looking at the cutter being tuned or the bike running stock without any assist at all. I chopped up the video clips between stock and cutter. Mostly cutting the accel pot tinkering and messing with the low speed.

That is how close you need to clean the mess you made without fly. Real time begins at 5:02. It sounded like 2 dirt bike engines tied together going by, right? Looked like a Suz. He eventually pulls off a road you can't go up, being chained off. As Fuzz knows me so well, I had something for that guy. Clocked at 5:15, either I was going to be at that spot for the rest of the run through, or leave some squirt in his pants passing him.



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Hub


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RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
06/09/10 12:07 PM

I have ended another R&D session with the stock '08 configuration. I can now reinstall the '06 injectors and the ECU I borrowed from, ninjamaster. Butt first, I would like to find out about that set of 1000cc injectors sitting in the 15° throttle body now. Swap the '08/'06 ECU's, find the A/F ratio difference? I no longer have a 3rd [ECU] variable to research that injector feed.

Therefore, I now have to swap out the 1000 injectors back to the '06 injectors. Having ninja's ECU can show me the matching fuel to air ratio for the correct injectors we both use. Once I am back to the stock setting in the '06 configuration, those are two birds down with one disconnect to go.

However, if we have an injector that has a 287 body number, we can assume it will bleed 330 or 440cc? Again, I am not about to cut open 3 different injectors to find out a pintle diameter difference or whatever is different besides the 10 vs. 12 hole spray at the end of each injector.

That means I half, 2 different ECU's with 3 of the same injector bodies to study or play with. I'm curious to see what the difference is? I half my backpack filled with a backup ECU. I can still find out if ninja's '06 ECU loaner, drops signal @ 3,800 rpm. Because within 200 rpm of my 4k WOT from there, we should have that bike lose whatever signal is going on within that box?

With ninja running trouble free at this point, the fuel pump try, the wire snug disruption off any rubbing part; we find the ECU cleared that signal. That had to be it. You had to remove the tool tray to get to the ECU. You had to basically lay the same path back down into the rubber tray and all that reassembly.

Watt becomes clear is that a wire would have caused a short to a fuse if not a code from that pack of wire coming out of the ECU. What is going to ground on a plastic fender? So, good call on the ECU. Makes sense if I feel some nasty tone stumble going on. It's just waiting to unload. Anyway, the wideband will read the A/F and see a lean or rich set against the '08 and '06 combo. Now I have one more set that may bring the tune in some direction are the 1000cc injectors.

Subless, here we come. I'm almost done.



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Hub


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RE: I have Subs/Flies removed do I need a Piggy
06/19/10 9:18 PM

I'll let the boys sit over at the pond and ponder that move on the ECU's. I have other fish to fry is see why ninja's ECU is on the blink. I've been off that bike for 5 days. The bike is all bone stock. Nothing upsetting the tone. Call me crazy (ha), but through my helmet I could hear the tonal ring going on with the digital signals ripping on WOT and lift. Either I've been watching too many of my videos, know where those tones are that Youtube muffles. I hear more depth with the original cut on the PC's sound card.

The bike I rode all covered with the rubber boot and plastic, ran, yes, cooler than mine, being all exposed and open. I'd almost say, I could feel the heat coming up off my bike, I ran the '06 ECU for too long. We are in lean condition with the wrong injectors. '06 injectors are much richer than the '08. Did it hurt the bike? No. It's 'Stumble Leana' [tiny little thing] on the bottom. Now, imagine the low rpm belly line of the lean drop, seen on many dyno runs. There is that lean take off stumble.

Because I don't need or will ever use this info other than dead end experiments... It is, sans the dyno room temp variables and time window between runs, 1.08hp will get you an ECU swap from year to year. Throw in an '08 ECU into a 2010 14, you get egg roll.

At 4.5 rpm, I get a peak line and the assfactor says different. Go figure. I figure the smooth rich line by the dyno makes 1 less HP there, but there she reads just by a box change. Other than that grunt window starting from 4K on, the '08's ECU will smooth it out, give you that one pony. Smoothed out big time, you'll hate it. Big enough to still pulled well, but not as well as keeping it stock for that eye popping burst. The 10's ECU is the cat's meow, do not swap ECU's if you want even more ultra-grunt is the final answer!

See how staying stock pays dividends? Locked out of that move is just about every move I've made so far is a 1 point difference. Shit, I'd run an Ice cube tray [full] in the ram and call it a day. Do your think are things to find out. Keep moving along. Like I'm sitting on my ass all dis time? OK, 5 days I rather not talk about.

When I saw that ECU in the mail, it had me ATE287 Hello.


* Last updated by: Hub on 6/19/2010 @ 9:22 PM *



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