Post your thoughts. Something Not adding up ?

oil fouling?....They don't look like the Iridiums I have....the stock plugs I mean.No...those are NOT the factory plugs.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/5/2014 @ 6:24 PM *

Grn is correct. Looks like a beat shit out of it break-in creeping up down the road.

From left to right, left being #1 is it?

1. Look at the oil up the threads = worse cylinder.
2. Less oil up the threads = Best of the 4.
3. Another sign of oil burn up the threads so this is 2nd worse cylinder.
4. Failed with the others.

Leakdown?

As hard as I try I'm not very good with hubeze. Are you saying this was from doing a too stressful break in?

Leakdown?

I'll be doing these on mine pretty soon.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=25EA8737-B21A-2258-920D6961F7462128

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/5/2014 @ 8:38 PM *

Leakdown test is done to confirm the health of the valves and checking for leaks in the head gasket.

Those not being the factory units for the zx...maybe...those just aren't hot enough?Is that possible?

Correct, UPS. Lets look at a bbq grill. The meat fat/olive oil/coat the grill and burns onto the metal. The pores in the wall/hatch mark lines/fill those with that bbq fatty oil is oil. The ring rides over that as in skips not scrapes over the wall on the scrubbing down.

Rings are relaxed coming up and suck up, if not the splash lube [effect] that cools the walls and piston: flings up as well. When the explosion happens, this rush of air moves over the dome, down the piston, behind the ring, down the ring groove and we stop at this first piston ring or the compression ring. This has the most pressure right now and is floating in that pressure bubble as pressured air flows down to the next ring and that is the oil scraper ring.

The last ring or say if it was just the compression ring and this last ring, look at all the holes the scrape down made and into those cuts in the last ring. Who is at fault? Compression is losing at both sides of the ring, yes? Call it a combo scraper/compression ring if that is less drag and that is more or less a two ring race piston.

Lets keep breaking it down we have a 2 ring race piston. We have to blame the oil not being scraped down is the ring and/or wall it is being burned onto the plugs and is wet with every fire off. No dry, tan metal, white porcelain, etc.

Piston Rings:
1. Ring means I may be stuck in the ring groove or a slight collapse of the dome upon detonation.
2. Detonation means it still runs, if the det wrinkled a ring. An analogy would be a ring looked like the arch of a bridge or tunnel, so that slight lift of the ring or groove, is arched with a tiny puddle of explosion of the det. And that says a wrinkled ring and/or ring land or both. Det happens to all 4 usually.
3. Even if the ring moves and det cause an ever so slight arch or the det scenario is a reusable piston, we are back to the wall glazing or the oil cooked and rubbed over like a seasoned bbq grill of a stainless tube they use for grills.

Cylinder Wall:
1. Heat was when you go zipping the shit out of that spin and cooks the oil yes?
2. Seasoned cast iron skillet ring a bell?
3. Hundreds of thousands of miles and you are not going to burn that metal away with 20 miles of beatshit break-in. Something has to be causing that oil to move past the comp and scraper ring.

Valve Guides:
1. The seals dried out, fell off, no way all the seals of each cylinder fell off, dried out, etc.
2. The bore of the guide is so loose, all the guides equally wore out and now all cylinders burn guide oil.
3. That leads back to the ring to wall if the valve deflect is equal to the other valves you take a dial indicator and deflect the fore and aft and rocking in that guide to valve stem is probably fine.

Heat:
1. Is this a blower bike?
2. We didn't take the tensile out of the rings with the heat they are hardened and won't expand fully?
3. Heat so gummy are the walls all looking yellow you pop the head off or scope thru the spark plug hole?

Meguveerinse:
A. For apple.
B. For breakdown the top case and pull 4 piston pin circlips.
C. For costo has vinegar in gallon containers.
D. For dip the pistons with rings and submerge those and the cylinder walls with vinny.
F. FFS, it's just oil cooked.
G. For get the fuck outta the wallet you need rings and a hone.
H. For the hell you say it won't work.
I. Forgot to say...

Signed,

NOLTT

The heat range is still 9, still an NGK number Grn, so no. Good call btw.

Comp gauge:
1. Shows in a few pulls of the cord if the lawn gets done today.
2. Good for valve and the oil squirt to see no change.
3. Good for the rings to seal with the oil again and can show both.

Leakdown:
1. @ TDC this shows air escaping without oil use.
2. @ 100% leak means valve bent; gasket burned out to the other cylinder; or burned thru the head/cylinder and out to atmosphere.
3. @ 1 or2% leak, means, zero leak at the valves; zero leak at the gasket; rings are the only leak and they are tight as a drum; sans the air at the gap of the rings; and the travel thru the grooves of the piston.

Optional Leak you can't with a gauge needing crank spin:
1. @ TDC lets for argument sake we have 2% the flames just burn that oil out and is carbon/baked clean.
2. @ BTDC lets now look at our leak after the intake valve closes we check as low as we can for a % change.
3. @ ATDC lets keep watching how much leak lost, we keep moving down before the exhaust opens, could the leak hold all that percentage or did it blow off down the closed off cylinder and where did it start?

Thanks guys was curious as to everyone's input. Now we talk wallet out put. How about 61.27 EACH ! WTF

???? Has to be a work around for a less expensive plug. Go copper and change em more often?

OR search for a cheaper source? This the same part? CR9EKPA?

9.99.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/ngk-laser-platinum-spark-plug-cr9ekpa-7785/18090298-P?zoneAssigned=1

Ebay has em for 12ish.

Methinks you misheard whoever gave you that price. has to be 61.xx for all 4.

* Last updated by: rod442 on 10/6/2014 @ 11:24 AM *

Have a leak down tester your welcome to use

How about 61.27 EACH ! WTF

Methinks you misheard whoever gave you that price. has to be 61.xx for all 4.

Exactly what I said to the stealer, sorry kawi dealer. Kind of in a bad spot though, you know, when you need them you need them. One of those........ Pricks.

I'm sure this is why some of the smaller shops go under. It's almost as if they don't know we the customer will search for better price.

Must be Sad to have to compete agaist a online store when you have a shop to run, but it is the way of the world now. Compete or?????? My price with tax was out the door was 276.94 Ouch Fucking Ouch !

must be a special version only for people with rotary mufflers. holy crap that's outrageous.

They probably sell some of those to people who don't know any better. A guy goes there for bike service and doesn't have a clue about what parts cost or how to install them so he pays. Lots of riders just want to ride. Not everyone spends a whole lot of time on the forums.

Kinda odd that all four plugs look the same, usually if you have bad rings they don't show up that equally in all 4 cylinders. I would look for another cause. Pull your air filter and see if you have oil blowing in there, could be a crank case ventilation problem, that would cause the equal fouling in all cylinders

... usually if you have bad rings they don't show up that equally in all 4 cylinders.

could be a crank case ventilation problem, that would cause the equal fouling in all cylinders

Any possibility that oil is getting through the turbo? When the scavenge pump was going south on my firebird, the turbo's were blowing quite a bit of oil into the intake track. Most of it was pooling in the innercoolers, and a bit out the exhaust. So, airbox clean? exhaust pipes oily? Also, what size oil restrictor does the turbo have? Might be needing a different one?

* Last updated by: rod442 on 10/6/2014 @ 11:50 PM *

Doesn't say if he has a turbo and I don't know what mods or how many miles he has on his bike.

The key to his problem is the equal fouling on all cylinders, if it was rings it would really be rare to have all wear the same and foul equally.

If he has a turbo I would look at seals and bushing on the shaft.

I hope for his sake it's something simple such as crank case vent!!!

Agreed, Rk. I'm 'assuming' this is Romes and Romes likes turbos and that's where I would bring detonation in as the piston damage across the board. Whereas the one time crankcase spooling eventually will be washed away by the gas and burn back to the tan/slash/white porcelain, being the normal lean is mean color.

The key to his problem is the equal fouling on all cylinders, if it was rings it would really be rare to have all wear the same and foul equally.

This was the head scratcher

Sorry guys I should have been more clear. This bike has 7000 km. It is naturally aspirated. Bike showed up here on trailer. It would start, but for the life of me I don't know how.(running2cyc)Sounded dead, smelled bad. I started off changing a light in the front, then bike got stripped looking for causes of what my suspicions were.

I asked you guys to verify plugs as for the life of me I can't understand how what could be described as a new bike could have plugs like this. They were All lose came out with almost no effort(coil sticks another story)(see pic, plug washer not even crushed). Hopefully this was part of the cause, oil wicking up the plug with unburnt fuel ? Even the Engine oil in the bike smells of varnished and un burnt fuel. Injectors are my big worry. If it was Suz I would just order new ones now.

For now I'm going with the optimistic approach. Bad Fuel, lose plugs, Dirty Filters.

Bike is back together with all new rubber, flies are now out and she runs like a kitten in the garage. There is Zero Smoke coming from tail pipe. Going to try A can of sea foam, run two takes of Fresh Fuel Through her, if it's not perfect do a re visit. New plug readings will tell all as this bike are on first name bases now. Spent too much time together lol

Once again, thank you for additional eyes and opinions. Ten brains better than one. Cheers

Sorry guys I should have been more clear.

... I don't know how.(running2cyc)Sounded dead, smelled bad.

They were All lose came out with almost no effort(coil sticks another story)(see pic, plug washer not even crushed).

... oil wicking up the plug with unburnt fuel?

Even the Engine oil in the bike smells of varnished and un burnt fuel.

Injectors are my big worry. If it was Suz I would just order new ones now.

For now I'm going with the optimistic approach. Bad Fuel, lose plugs, Dirty Filters.

... flies are now out and she runs like a kitten in the garage.

There is Zero Smoke coming from tail pipe.

Going to try A can of sea foam

... if it's not perfect do a re visit.

New plug readings will tell all as this bike are on first name bases now. Spent too much time together lol

Once again, thank you for the entertainment waiting for godot or the H2; whichever comes first.

This bleeds 'check compression' so it's more of a given you do not take on jobs without a compression test. Those are not OE plugs. You never took a compression test?

Hub only reason I didn't was All four plugs looking like that????? Can't B. Those are OE plugs Bike 4200 miles, or 7000km. No sign anywhere of tampering. Wheel bearings look like they came out of the box, brake pads same as new. Not one bolt cracked on mounts. Air box was wiped down with white shop towel. Came back as if no crank case vapor at all???? From here I cleaned box, spayed sensors down with electronic cleaner and buckled her back up.

I have all tools needed to do compression & Leak Down test. Should I have done it ? In the science of it "Yes". I did the assume short way. U know, makes a ASS out of U and ME.

If bike has any issues the test is the least of our worries. I know the drill. 99% of the time your doing that test because you already know, tell me I'm lying

I'm going to go by your assumption about the ring crush/loose plugs/comp loss/and one yellow #2 plug on the outside is blowby out the plug, yes we have no bananas and/or compression number I need a can of foam? I do not smoke out the back it's not a sitter with stuck rings I need foam. Did I instantly start up? Yes. Why would I need foam if gas is a detergent am moving all the time is that friction helper.

If this bike comes back I will show compression test and post pics. I will give you the "I told you so card" Not to be a Ass but because you were write and earned that stripe. I'm older now and can take my lumps

* Last updated by: Romans on 10/7/2014 @ 4:45 PM *