I just ordered a PC 5. Anyone have a good map? Or will I have to pay Jeffo again for a map? Already have a PCIII map of his. I will probably get the autoune also. How do you guys like he autotune feature?

One of the features on a PCV is you can import PC3 maps into it.

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That’s good to know! Thanks!

If you have a PCV now I'm guessing you have a newer bike (08 or newer), I wouldn't plug the PC3 map from an 06/07 into an 08+ as there are significant changes to the engine.

If you are going to run an autotune anyways, I would suggest downloading the map for your bike/config from Power Commander's website to use as a starting point. After a ride with the auto tune, connect your laptop and accept the trims to get you to a rough map then ride more (like a week), accept trims, ride more (like a month), accept trims, etc

Rook, myself and probably others have used the autotune quite a bit and can help you if you have any questions. Check the how-to section for a guide that Rook put together if you are unfamiliar with autotune.

I like my PCV with Autotune. It's a lot of fun to play with but if you have a map from a good tuner, I doubt you will feel a big improvement from the refinements Autotune will make. If you want to learn about AFR tuning instead of leaving it all up to a tuner, Autotune is the way to go. Many tuners suggest using a PC5 even with their flash so the old tech is still relevant.

I accepted trims one time after just riding the bike as/normal. It did seem to make an improvement in the flies open fueling I was running on with the flies removed. The throttle response at 3200 rpm was choppy and Autotune smoothed that out.

The problem with the "just ride the bike" approach is that there will probably be a lot fueling adjustments that are incorrect. Inconsistent exhaust flow and fueling characteristics that are controlled by the ECU while rolling off of the throttle cause false data to be received by the O2 sensor. The best way to use Autotune is exactly how a tuner would use his equipment while running the bike on a dyne. You open instantly to the throttle position you want to tune and hold it at that TP until the engine reaches the max rpm for that TP. Then close the throttle immediately. That will give you fuel adjustments that are accurate. The problem is that your 14 will max at very high speeds even with partial throttle but it will take a long time and a lot of road to hit the max. I found little tricks to make the high speed runs less risky but even so, I had a few close calls with the law. A single run for any given TP is not usually enough to get the AFR perfect. I did 3 or 4 runs to get mine spot on. Maybe a total of about 60 runs, most over 100 mph. You get better at it with experience but its risky on the road with police and animals.

Give this a thorough read and you'll have a good idea of what you will need to do to really get your whole map tuned with Autotune.

How To Use Autotune

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Also, it's essential that you start with a base map that has a good AFR table. If the AFR table is conservative, you can can tune it perfectly but it still won't make the best power. Autotune works toward achieving the fueling that will produce the AFR numbers that are entered in the AFR table of the map. If your AFR table is rich, Autotune will suggest adjustments to match those rich AFRs.

I haven't looked at DJ maps a lot but I believe their AFR tables are on the rich side. This is to provide a generous safety margin. Lean will cause sever problems at higher RPM. AFR of about 13 or a bit higher will make best power without going to lean. I have read that about 13 AFR on a sport bike is the same as 14 AFR (stoichiometric = optimum mixture of fuel and air for most complete combustion) on a car. Whatever the case may be, the AFR you want is somewhere close to 13. The magic is what rpm/TP do you want 12.8 and what rpm/TP do want 13.5----that's what the tuner knows that we don't. I don't think it makes a big enough difference to notice by the seat of your pants.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/20/2019 @ 11:07 AM *

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Thanks guys! lo and behold, Jeffo wants me to buy another map from him for the PCV. His map on the PCIII has the accelerator pump feature enabled too. The PCV doesn’t use that feature and I think it’s almost useless.
He’s hell bent that the autotune is useless, but I can’t trust a stranger that doesn’t tune without an AFR. I can’t risk someone who guesses using temperature and altitude. Despite testimonies I’m goin to purchase a tool for the bike that takes the guesswork out.
I will definitely start with a base map from Dynojet and tune from it. Hopefully the weather gets nicer soon.

Nick

His map on the PCIII has the accelerator pump feature enabled too. The PCV doesn’t use that feature and I think it’s almost useless.

I'm very skeptical about Jeffo's tuning technique.

Accelerator Pump adds fuel under heavy throttle. I am almost certain the PC5 also has this capability. I do not know if it is beneficial or not.

He’s hell bent that the autotune is useless, but I can’t trust a stranger that doesn’t tune without an AFR.

It's definitely not useless. My flies open throttle response is smoother than ever even in low gears. Also the bike ran unpleasantly rough at large TPs at low rpm. I thought that was just normal. After Autotuning, the bike accelerates perfectly smooth even below 3000 rpm at large TPs. No lurching or laboring just smooth acceleration. This WOT from 2000 rpm up in 6th gear. Ask Jeffo if he can do that. ?? In most cases, I guess I would just shift down a gear or two instead but it's good to know the engine runs smooth under the widest range of conditions.

I’m goin to purchase a tool for the bike that takes the guesswork out.
I will definitely start with a base map from Dynojet and tune from it.

Let me know when you have questions. DJ is also a pretty good source of info especially if you can talk to Chris Kelly by email. I just about mined every last detail out of him.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/21/2019 @ 5:01 PM *

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Thanks again Rook. Last night I ordered both Autotune and the POD-300.

I suppose you're aware but you'll need to weld an O2 sensor bung into your pipe. Do some research on that to determine the best location for sampling an exhaust mixture from all 4 cylinders. The location I use where the 2 pipes collect into one works but it seems to me I'm getting more of a sampling of cylinders 3 and 4 than 1 and 2. I'd rather have the sensor on the mid pipe where all cylinders should be intermixed more thoroughly. Most people say it doesn't matter that much but I'm kind of particular.

You'll enjoy working with it. An LSR course would be the best place to use this stuff but they're valuable for tuning legal and semi-legal speeds too if you don't want to run into trouble with the cops.

I'll be tuning for nitrous this summer out where I've moved in the boonies. No cops but there are an awful lot of deer, turkey, sandhill cranes and vultures. If it's not one thing, it's another. Be safe and get ahold of me when you need advice.

OH--BTW, that data playback feature is nuthin. It's great to do a quick check of AFR after a run but if you really get into it, the POD-300 records data from at least 15 sources and at intervals of 1/10th second so you can really look at what your engine is doing in minute detail. All you need to do is download DJ's Log File Manager software and use any spreadsheet software to view the file. Have fun!

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/22/2019 @ 10:12 AM *

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My TiForce has a place for the O2 sensor so we’re GTG. Thanks again man!

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DJ is also a pretty good source of info especially if you can talk to Chris Kelly by email. I just about mined every last detail out of him.

Quiz time PC5 . Pressure vs TPS mapping how do you get rid of the TPS map when you switch to Pressure map.

this stump DJ . I was on hold for a long time then whatever i'm doing is the right way .

also why can't we run auto tune and map switching at the same time your forced to run one or the other . kinda sucks when you need to tune that nitrous map . seem like after 10 year DJ could update the PCV firmware to support this .

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Pressure vs TPS mapping how do you get rid of the TPS map when you switch to Pressure map.
this stump DJ . I was on hold for a long time then whatever i'm doing is the right way .

LOL IDK, 1bad. I don't have turbo yet so never had the need for PSI tuning.

I will have to try the PSI setting this summer to see what happens to the table.

why can't we run auto tune and map switching at the same time your forced to run one or the other . kinda sucks when you need to tune that nitrous map . seem like after 10 year DJ could update the PCV firmware to support this .

I agree. I would rather have the ability to use a map switch and an Autotune switch at the same time. There are two separate switch inputs so they could make it possible to run both simultaneously. The drawback would be you could not use the quuickshifter or user defined data log channel if you had both inputs taken up by AutoTune and Map Switch. Really, they should make one or two more inputs AND make all features capable of running simultaneously. They say you can double up some features to one input but I can see that won't work when you have said input configured to one feature already.

The reason DJ doesn't want to let you use AutoTune at the same time you are using the map switch is that you might switch on the Autotune during a nitrous run letting Autotune adjust to a lean condition for a second or two. Could happen if have your +/- trims set high like +/- 40%. If you have the +/- trims set low, should be safe to run Autotune with any kind of map. They don't trust the users of their product to know what they are doing.

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Finally got my POD 300 and the Autotune installed. So far I’ve only gotten the the basics up and running. I love the size of the POD. I’ve also mounted the PCV in a more conventional way. I’ll post more pics tonight.

* Last updated by: winters19 on 3/27/2019 @ 7:42 AM *

Nice piece. I bought my LCD-200 before the POD-300 was available.

First step I would take in tuning is to enter zero in each cell of the 0% TP column on the AFR table. IMHO, it's better to let the bike idle at the manufactures AFR for heat dissipation and also, the ECU does all kinds of crazy fueling adjustments on a cold start. If you tune your 0% column, Autotune will fight your ECUs repeated attempts to adjust the fuel for a smooth idle at cold start. I set my Autotune to come on 2 minutes after startup and I zero out my 0% TP column as recommended by DJ. I DO tune my 1% column and all other TPs.

As for tuning the 0% column above idle speeds, you can try to do it to decrease engine popping if you want. I do not think Autotune will be effective for that. I believe Nightmare made some drastic manual adjustments for decelleration popping and it worked.

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Believe it or not, the PCV will fit nicely beneath the ignition switch housing, right on top the bracket that supports the gauges. This makes routing the cables a lot easier because the Autotune comes with a long CAN BUS cable. I put the Autotune unit beneath the seat and ran the CAN BUS all the way to the PCV unit. From there I used the small jumper to connect the POD to the PCV. It’s a tight fit between the ignition housing and the PCV, but I can assure you that there is about .030 of space..... The 3M Velcro provided is super strong.

Cool! I now have my PC5 and Autotune velcroed to the back of the the RH ram air tube. The Ignition Module is on the left. I'm making a switch plate for DJ features and it will go on the meter/upper stay bracket.

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I believe Nightmare made some drastic manual adjustments for decelleration popping and it worked.

Awww, I'm flattered that you remembered :)

What Rook is talking about is I set the 0% column from 3,000RPM (or was it 3,500? its been a while since I looked) to -100 which completely cut the fuel during high RPM closed throttle/engine braking. No perceived ill effects running that for a few years now.

I'm not sure if the later generations of the ECU are the same as my 08, but on the 08 there are different fuel and timing maps for the different gears and while the PCV can at least do a per-gear fuel mapping it's a bit of a pain. I installed Ivan's TRE which locks the ECU to a non-emissions map (think the Neutral gear map but not really) so that all gears run the same ECU fuel map. Then I could tune the map on the PCV that I started out with and I now have it running WAY better than it was originally.

A couple of things to help you with your tuning, I have commented on earlier on our forum was that at low speed cruising RPM/TP (2500-3000RPM 2%-5% if I remember correctly) the autotune would remove too much fuel so after I manually adjusted that area I went to the autotune map and set the target AFR to 0 for those cells (which tells autotune to ignore those cells). The second thing is that there is a delay between the event (combustion of fuel in the cylinder) and the reading from the O2 sensor. This isn't a big deal just something Rook and I have observed.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, you will want to have your PCV fairly easily accessible so you can connect the USB cables to your laptop to accept the trims. As an alternative you can pick up some extension cables (see an example below) that are permanently connected to the PCV but the female end is easy to get to.

https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Female-Extension-Cable-Adapter/dp/B071GXM6JD

Last thing to note, note sure if its just something finicky with my PCV, or the fact that I have the PCV, ignition module and autotune, but I have found I needed to connect multiple USB cables to access the maps properly as well as disconnecting the POD300. So if you're having troubles getting the software to recognize the PCV give those a try.

Thanks Nightmare, much appreciated.

So on the 0 TPM column I will input-100 from 3k to 11.5k?

Yes, I believe that is what Nightmare is saying, -100 in every cell of the 0 TP% column, 3000 rpm up through 11,500. I don't see why you couldn't go all the way to 12,500 rpm with that or however high in rpm the table goes.

The idea is to remove all fuel at 0% throttle at any rpm the bike would be moving.

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The idea is to remove all fuel at 0% throttle at any rpm the bike would be moving.

i may be wrong but after a hard blast on my pistons i like to dump fuel on them to cool them down at 0% TPS from 11,000 rpm as the rpm winds down from a shut down .

plus the decel pop scares the wildlife away

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 3/31/2019 @ 10:32 PM *

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That might be why Kaw does the fuel dump at 0% throttle, hey?

No joke, my exhaust saved me from some deer about to cross the road once. The downshift and ensuing POP scared them away.

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