Which is best to use, the motion pro liquid or the old school vacuum gauge set up?

I have only heard of a manometer (liquid thing) being used. I'd prefer the tester with dial gauges instaed of a manometer. Perhaps you would need a very expensive and accurate dial gauge pressure tester. I tried a cheap one from Harbor Freight. The needle shook so much it was good for only a rough estimate which is useless for syncing. Hub suggested stepping down the inlet so the variable pressure of the engine pulses would even out. Never tried that. Too important so I just got the usual tool. Haven't used it yet but people seem to feel they work well enough.

Make sure you get the right pilot screwdriver if you need to adjust. The 14 requires a phillips. The motion Pro tool in this thread has interchangeable heads. Nice quality. Have not used it yet. I also have the MP manometer (not used yet).

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=EA8AE1BE-D56B-84E2-18526EFE9EB9FA8A&page=1&searchTerm=throttle%20body%20synch&show

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/31/2014 @ 7:22 AM *

This pressure gauge was not much easier to read in real life. I saw one with 4 dials for testing TBs but I do not know how well it worked.

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/31/2014 @ 7:21 AM *

mano- no adjust
gaug- match 3 needles to main needle you picked, meaning, hold needle turn center screw either way to match main screw's position x's 3.

mano- uses stepdown tubes to stabilize liquid
gaug- needs a needle de-flutter in between the line

Syncing is a two-step move. Follow manual procedure.

* Last updated by: Hub on 1/31/2014 @ 8:37 AM *

I've had a set of these for over 30 years. Had to add some brass air-control valves like you use for a fish tank to control needle jumping, but they work just as well with throttle bodies as they did with 4 carbs.

Cool Danna what do the brass air control vavles look like and where do I get em.

See the needles (#3) sitting different than the others?

Before a sync: the procedure is to check compression first. You'd pull the others slides/t-body blades open higher to compensate, then the engine is slow to come back to an idle.

Bobby, you can get the air valves at any aquarium supply tropical fish shop. The ones I have are solid brass and rarely need tweaking once they are set to the point where the needles calm down but vacuum still flows. This one looks to be plastic, but you get the idea:

* Last updated by: Danno on 2/1/2014 @ 5:25 AM *

Have yet to use it on the 14, but I picked up the Carbtune years ago and used it to sync my Busa.

http://www.carbtune.com/

No mercury.

* Last updated by: RCRandy on 2/1/2014 @ 5:55 PM *

I just tried that motion pro on lmy Busa and it sucked all the blue stuff out and was redered worthless to me so I got the ones Danno has coming and going to the fish shop this week. Might get carbtune also, I just want the easiest to use with the best performance.

The motion pro has to be calibrated before every use. I think you have to turn the screws all the way counter clockwise before hooking it up for calibration, use the restrictors and don't go over 3k rpm's or it will suck the fluid out for sure. The motion pro is the only one that I own except for my old school single, needle vacuum gage. You can refill the manometer fluid : manometer fluid refill

... it sucked all the blue stuff out... so I got the ones Danno has coming... I just want the easiest to use with the best performance.

Easiest = Vacuum gauges.
Mano = Engine contamination.

Danno, thanks for that bumperette idea. Bobby, possibly wal-mart may have that down the pet isles? Here is book procedure:

1. Check compression. They say warm, I say close enough cold and the engine always starts cold so that is the compression it fires off of. Say all cylinders are equal.
2. Disable PAIR. With a razor, cut down a wine cork to shove in the PAIR hose that is under the bottom of the main frame.
3. Warm the engine.
4. Match every needle to the same cylinder... If cylinder pressures equal out.
5. Sync cyl 1 to cyl 4. Turn the spring loaded center screw between the throttle bodies.
6. Install the two center gauges to 2 and 3 cylinders. Check the sync now?
7. Use the ears to hear the balance. Clutch bang increases the more the sync is off. This is chain slapping or gear bang one cylinder fires off before or after the next cylinder to be fired. This off balance is a bang or bellowing inside the crankcase you can hear. The needles are so close, you can ear it even closer.

My chain slap at idle on a stand is TB sync problems? Can TB sync have any effects above 10k rpm?

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 2/2/2014 @ 7:52 PM *

Mav, it's not the drive chain, but more the chain or gear connection between crank to main shaft. This is a pulse as if you had 4 doors open in the house, the wind flies thru the house, but you have a toy pin wheel in front of the flow. One blade will move slower or faster than the other doors being more open or closed down some. Use that same theory and hook up all the door openings on one cable pull. No matter where the cable is pulled, you have those doors open in all different opening all the way up to WOT.

That says I am tackling one imbalance to the syncing. I have one more to go. You are more the racer and need that WOT happening in a second kind of fuel to air feed. So for your sync setup it goes something like this.

A. Remove both hoses off 3-4 throttle bodies; close those nipples down at the throttle body. Keep the hoses open or you vapor lock the tank. So you follow some lines out the tank; figure out how to keep the vent open and away from any hot part the gas can ignite; if the tank is filled too high; etc.

B. Close down all low speed screws by lightly seating the screws home, but not to the gorilla point of crushing the machined tapered hole or indent a line in the brass screw.

C. Warm engine.

D Install 1-4 vac gauge/mano hoses to sync the blades with the spring loaded center screw.

E. Install 2-3 vac hoses. Open each screw to said desired opening. The more air flowing out of those holes, the leaner the move from idle up to floating the valves or hitting the rpm limiter = The same flow from idle to WOT.

F. Begin to balance each screw against the other having the same exact opening of the other 3 = Balance those as you did the blades @ 1-4 you did first. This makes the same move in the book, but in an assbackwords like move, they meet on the same page in the manual.

I would open and resync the throttle body so the manometer was even across the board at the lows. I'd close them altogether, know my blades were evenly sunk. I could reach under the t-body, open a screw leaner, match the others that they will be balanced to the same opening = No crank to main shaft bang, which interns: bangs the tangs of the fibers plates. This happens in both directions at the big clutch outer's forks where the tangs slide into. You pull the clutch in the noise goes away so the tangs float individually and eliminate that slapping occurrence.

So you are with mano, a run down the track. A refresh round of openings or closings there of is more gas or less from idle to WOT, remember.

* Last updated by: Hub on 2/2/2014 @ 10:52 PM *

I turned the screws all the way and as soon as i started it up it sucked the fluid out at idle, got a refill and will try it again but still got the old school needles coming.

Bobby,

You are missing the "step-down-inserts" inside each tube. It does not matter the screw opening. Here is the next part. How do I remove the contaminants? I hope my liquid is heavier than oil. If I crack the drain screw, I might see this as the lowest point on the side stand. If my mano liquid streams out before oil does, I may have captured most of it.

What about all of it? Well, in the anal direction it's drain now no matter what. New oil filter and fresh oil is again, once around the block and drain it again. Check for mano matter. In a clean drain pan, was there mano? If yes, keep flushing.

I put the brass things in the tubes as per directions, is that what your speaking of. First thing i did was check my throttle bodies for mano fluid, none found.

First thing i did was check my throttle bodies for mano fluid, none found.

What about all of it? Well, in the anal direction it's drain now no matter what. New oil filter and fresh oil is again, once around the block and drain it again. Check for mano matter. In a clean drain pan, was there mano? If yes, keep flushing.

What a PITA.

Could a coulple militers of mano fluid (that sounds so dirty) have any deleterious effect on the engine? I mean, I know there has to be condensation in there when I ride in the cold weather. It burns off if the bike is run hard enough. I doubt there is any solid matter in mano fluid so it can't be so awful that we need to flush the engine repeatedly. I'd think you'd be fine to drain it and replace in Spring. Maybe even put some miles on the storage oil first. I don't think i would bother with changing the filter if it was fresh when put into storage.

Let us know how this goes Bobby. Hope you get it to work but if not, I may just order a tester with gauges, too.

Imma fix it and tell you guys how it comes out and my needle gauges will be here tomorrow.

Bobby. See 2:00 Fill level.

7:00 minimum vacuum level--turn screw OUT all the way counterclockwise to restrict flow 100%)

13:40 turn all screws OUT for storage.

14:10 water based -- that is going to boil right out of your engine oil. shit, i would not worry about that stuff as long as you don't keep sucking it up. Most people prolly get more water in their engine from condensation developing changing oil in cold weather.

I posted a question for ya (regarding the sucked up mano fluid) in this vids comments, Bobby. Hope we get a response soon.

I'm curious if your needle gauges are going to flutter like the mano fluid does. --not that it matters for syncing. All that matters there is that you get each 1 & 2 equal, 3 & 4 equal and then both banks equal. Would be very nice to be able to pinpoint the exact vacuum. I'm sure there is a specced range and it would be nice to know if the bike is in spec as well as synced.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/17/2015 @ 3:07 PM *

use the restrictors and don't go over 3k rpm's or it will suck the fluid out for sure.

If you turned the screws all the way out and the fluid still got sucked out immediately, could it be that the engine was running on fast idle and making a lot higher vacuum than it would at idle?

Air screw(s) position are CLOSED to first sync the main blades.
Air screw(s) turned closed will cause a rich condition.
Air screw(s) turned 1/4 turn out is going in the lean condition.
Air sucked in one time, meaning, one intake stroke, without the restrictor, fluid will be sucked out once every intake stroke.
Air sucked thru a tiny hole restriction will keep the fluid in a resistance mode and rise to the occasion, rather than... Elvis has left the building.

* Last updated by: Hub on 2/4/2014 @ 7:50 AM *

Got the Motion pro filled up and gonna try it one more time, if not going to the needle gauages forever! lol. Thanks for the vid Rook just gotta go back and make sure I got everything capped that need to be and uncapped that needs to be.

* Last updated by: Bobby914 on 2/4/2014 @ 11:01 AM *

You can hardly find the pin hole or she is going to suck it up. Toothpick size is a no-no... Straight pin size is more like it.

^^^^IOW, when you open the valves, turn screws clockwise ever so slightly checking the whole time. Stop when you see the stuff ruse up just a half inch or so.