On the same corner, I tend to lean the bike more than other riders. Is it because I initiate turns too soon or too late? I like the look of my tire but would rather pick up more speed!

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Assuming you all follow the same line, the only reason you would lean farther would be because you were going faster than they are.

How do you know you are leaning more than other riders, drag? I don't think you can tell just by your tires. I believe that chicken strips or lack thereof has lot to do with tire pressure and weight. Round tires may have to lean more than straighter sided tires to wear into those chicken strips.

Ideally, cornering is making a straight line across a curve. This is not always possible but we try to make it as straight of a line as we can. This requires that you start on the outside as far as possible and cut across the corner to the inside and then exiting, you end up going to the outside again. I'm sure you know the whole idea behind brake, apex, exit. What I have recently discovered is that the deeper and straighter you can drive into the corner before you drop into your lean, the straighter you make your path though the curve and the faster you can cut across it. Obviously you need to have your speed under control if you are waiting to the last possible millisecond to drop into a sharp lean on a curve.

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I've been doing some of my corners like...WAY faster....faster than on my 07.I won't say how much faster...but significantly.I still have 1/2 inch strips on that worn out Metzler I'm replacing.Rook's onto something there.I kept lookin ya know...thinkin...'shit man...how much faster and farther I gotta lean?I'm going at it WAY more than before..."

With my 07,they would have been LONG GONE by now.

How do you know you are leaning more than other riders, drag?

We run similar tires and their chicken strip are huge! Mine is 1/4 inch on the rear, one of them had like a little under 2 inches!!!! I rode behind one and we took this long double apexed sweeper in the triple digit and my head was by the left mirrors, the guy was leaned but just a little. Also the chicken strip on my front tire is huge compared to the rear. I think that I steer too early and correct mid corner. I also ran into this other guy on a 1000 RR a little while back and he had pretty good racing tires, spec inflated. The guy was taking sweepers 5 to 10 mph faster than me but leaned less. I'm really leaning toward the early steering diagnostic because I have a better side. If you read this month issue of fast bikes, they have a section in which they talk about rider having a better side. It is easier for me to make a right turn. The funny thing is that I've never crashed on the left even on a bicycle that I can remember! It may be that since my right arm is strongest (but I write with the left!!!) it fights the left over the control of the bar. When I pull instead of pushing, or make a mental note to pull the right side when I'm pushing the left I turn a little smoother. What I really need to practice on is steering with the left only and using the right just for the throttle.

* Last updated by: dragking on 4/24/2012 @ 11:48 PM *

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Dragking sounds like you need to work on your body position you know hanging off more one cheek on the seat tucked in tight and focus on how much pressure you have on each foot on the peg but then again how much do you weigh compared to the other rider and are you both on 14’s or liter bikes?
P.S. stupid question but your Ohlin’s suspension has been set up for your weight on the bike correct?

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We run similar tires and their chicken strip are huge! Mine is 1/4 inch on the rear, one of them had like a little under 2 inches!!!!

That does sound like there has to be something different going on but it could be largely due to a heavier bike/rider.

I have definitely noticed that same tire aspect ratio does not = same tread shape. My brand new Power 1 is a perfect circle (well, it was when new ) The BT-003 I had on before this was oval--it had high flat side tread. The oval tread wore right up to the edge at the track. Last track day, I did not even come close on the round Power 1. Of course, it was a lot colder, I was going slower and used a few pounds higher tire pressure.

Also the chicken strip on my front tire is huge compared to the rear.

I am nearly certain that is the case for everyone. Mine have always done that. I put up a thread about that long ago and got several responses indicating that their front tire always had chicken strips even if the back had none.

I think that I steer too early and correct mid corner.

That is what everyone does until they know the corner so well they have visual brake, turn, apex, exit marks. You remember that guy in Closer To The Edge?? "Milky"?? He was driving the TT in his car and speaking his turn in markers, etc as he went over the course. "theres that tree, drop into the corner, up over the rise, past the hedge on the throttle, on the throttle, out just past the fence and GOO!!" He has the whole friggin thing memorized. Every detail.

I also ran into this other guy on a 1000 RR a little while back and he had pretty good racing tires, spec inflated. The guy was taking sweepers 5 to 10 mph faster than me but leaned less.

He was on a lighter bike but I do not think that would matter at all..you both would need to lean just as far to take the same corner at the same speed. In fact if he was going 5-10 mph faster, he would need to lean more than you....unless he was hanging off a lot more than you, maybe. In fact, if these other people hang off a lot more than you, that would be just what they need to go 5-10 mph faster than you at ~100 mph-ish. Don't tell me you missed the "hanging off thread" in General section? If you get Kruz involved on this he'll crack his calculous book on you.

It is easier for me to make a right turn.

Me too. I never lost every bit of CS on the left side of my tire. The left CS is always wider than the right. Unlike you, I am right handed. I think the right turn bias has to do with us driving on the right side of the road? We end up making a LOT more tight right handers. Lefts are always across at least one other lane of traffic thus they are twice as wide as the rights. I believe we start picking up on this at an early age before we drive. We start to follow these basic rules with our bicycles and skateboards. I notice people in the park sort of expect me to stay on the right even when I am jogging on a bike path.

focus on how much pressure you have on each foot on the peg

Yes, I tried that press left foot / push right hand. That seems to work. Like many of the other little rules we talk about, that one just sort of comes naturally. I bet most of us do it automatically if we just relax and go with the flow. Especially in an emergency. Still, I feel it is very valuable to know why and what we are doing as well as actually doing it. Seems to be best for me, anyway.

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Drag, if you do 5-6 track days, I bet you will learn a two years worth of sport riding on the street. Only thing is, you might not care to go that fast on the street anymore cuz you will see that you really can't. There is no substitute for those 1/8 mile sweepers with smooth straight road to exits. You won't find those on too many tracks I don't think. You learn to brake hard though.

.....Not to sound like MR Knowitall. I only had 2 trackdays myself.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/25/2012 @ 10:27 AM *

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Dragking sounds like you need to work on your body position you know hanging off more one cheek on the seat tucked in tight and focus on how much pressure you have on each foot on the peg but then again how much do you weigh compared to the other rider and are you both on 14’s or liter bikes?
P.S. stupid question but your Ohlin’s suspension has been set up for your weight on the bike correct?

The other guy had probably at least 60 lbs on me and was on a concourse. Hanging off would have definitely helped some but I really wanna max out my lean angle before I start doing that.

Nah it's not a stupid question... yes the suspension are tailor made. I can feel that front hand all the time and I can feel exactly what the bike is doing!

I put up a thread about that long ago and got several responses indicating that their front tire always had chicken strips even if the back had none.

Yeah that's what I thought but my ratio is higher than most. That, though may be due to tire pressure. I should run a 38/42 instead of running 40/40.

That is what everyone does until they know the corner so well they have visual brake, turn, apex, exit marks. You remember that guy in Closer To The Edge?? "Milky"?? He was driving the TT in his car and speaking his turn in markers, etc as he went over the course. "theres that tree, drop into the corner, up over the rise, past the hedge on the throttle, on the throttle, out just past the fence and GOO!!" He has the whole friggin thing memorized. Every detail.

Yeah this is one of my favorite part, you can see him mimicking holding a throttle although he is driving a car and saying with his Irish accent "flat out still flat out, down one gear..." You gotta love it.

Don't tell me you missed the "hanging off thread" in General section? If you get Kruz involved on this he'll crack his calculous book on you.

lol Nah I didn't, even wrote an essay in that thread lol. Yes the Beemer guy was hanging but the other guys, on concourse and BMW 1200 were not hanging at all. I often ride with this group which is half track day guys and half sport touring guys. The track guys hang off but aren't faster than the sport touring guys.

I think the right turn bias has to do with us driving on the right side of the road?

I agree.

Drag, if you do 5-6 track days, I bet you will learn a two years worth of sport riding on the street. Only thing is, you might not care to go that fast on the street anymore cuz you will see that you really can't.

Yep hopefully I'll be doing my first track day next month! We do have some smooth deserted roads here though, so I wouldn't be surprise if I go a "little" faster in the street.

* Last updated by: dragking on 4/25/2012 @ 11:46 AM *

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If you are apexing early you may be forced to lean the bike further to finish the turn. Try delaying the apex, pitch the bike right on over and then as soon as you can, stand it back up with some throttle to finish the turn.
Hanging off will also decrease the amount of lean angle your bike will need. Honestly, if you aren't dragging hard parts on the ground, the bike can make the turn.

Mad

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Yep, that's what I was thinking. In total Control, Lee Parks shows you different lines on the same turn and what newbie like me tend to do is steer early, and continue to make steering inputs throughout the turn. If you look at my rear tire, the left has almost no more chicken strip while the right has 1/4. It makes sense! I have less confidence in my ability to steer left and therefore panic and steer early.

Honestly, if you aren't dragging hard parts on the ground, the bike can make the turn.

True. When that happens, I'll start to hang off!

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Dragking maxing out your lean angle without hanging off will not make you faster in the corners especially at your weight (no I’m not saying your fat) it is actually more dangerous!! Going fast in the corners is more about keeping as much grip as possible and hitting the apex than it is lean angle! And remember let the bike do the work if your forcing the bike in to the corner your doing it wrong and compromising grip just relax hang off a little and hit your line nice and smooth and you will get faster and faster!! Oh yea and have fun at your first track day and will you be riding the 14 or did you get a designated track bike?

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dragking; " I have less confidence in my ability to steer left and therefore panic and steer early"
Just read an article by Keith Code talking about that exact problem. Everyone has something they're not as confident with, and panic, or flinch. He calls it "survival reactions".
Keith Code

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It's VERY difficult to find out on the street just where the best apex is...and there may be more than one in a given turn.If you consistently ride the same roads...and get to know the turns well...then you can actually 'practice' different techniques much easier and get better.'Better' is subjective anyway.Trying to be'the perfect rider' is kinda well...what IS the perfect rider?I can tell ya...and I mentioned this on another thread...I have a 190 on the rear of my bike.I had 190's on my 07.I regularly burned those strips off within a hundred miles.My fastest turn speed was about 140 tops at ONE time.I've taken the same turns here now with my new bike....at 160 a few times.STILL have about a half inch of strip on my 190.So what do you think I'm doing or whatever that's different?Same size tire...considerable increase in turn speed.Heavier bike.I should be leaning MORE at those higher speeds,yes?But........what do YOU think is going on?I am NOT hanging off either.Leaning in,yes...hanging off,no.

If you are apexing early you may be forced to lean the bike further to finish the turn. Try delaying the apex, pitch the bike right on over and then as soon as you can, stand it back up with some throttle to finish the turn.
Hanging off will also decrease the amount of lean angle your bike will need. Honestly, if you aren't dragging hard parts on the ground, the bike can make the turn.

Mad

We do have some smooth deserted roads here though, so I wouldn't be surprise if I go a "little" faster in the street.

Thought track days would "get it outta my system"... Nope... Entered a "suggested" 25mph 180 degree left hander in triple digits the other day... was dragging a knee over the turtles @ the apex. Kinda hurt.

That is like saying, "I don't know where my dick is at the moment?"

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"It's VERY difficult to find out on the street just where the best apex is".

When yer rollin in,and yer on the gas,and you near that apex...wherever it is...you're leaned in,concentrated on getting it right...you look up more...ahead...suddenly...here's an 18 wheeler hugging the centerline.Coming right at ya.Think ya still can find that apex?And get it 'just right'?Experts...everyone's an expert LOL!!!!!Draw yer corner...ya...from memory...each one on the street.Ya...sit down like those Professionals do and plan yer turn in and corner speed and such with yer little red pen.ON THE TRACK.With their mentors....No oncoming cars...no gravel in the turn...no nuthin but you and that tarmac...which never changes as you get better and better.

Passing cars on the freeway and all IS NOT 'finding yer apex'...sorry...but it's a whole different show.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/26/2012 @ 12:13 PM *

Dragking maxing out your lean angle without hanging off will not make you faster in the corners especially at your weight (no I’m not saying your fat) it is actually more dangerous!! Going fast in the corners is more about keeping as much grip as possible and hitting the apex than it is lean angle!

Yeah, you're right I know. However, I'm not working on "fast" yet. My logic is that if I don't hang off and max my speed and lean angle and get used to it. I will pick up a lot of speed when I start to hang off. I wanna maximize everything.

Just read an article by Keith Code talking about that exact problem. Everyone has something they're not as confident with, and panic, or flinch. He calls it "survival reactions".

Yeah, he talks a little bit about that in this month Fast bikes. I have read some about this topic in T of the Wrist as well. The funny thing is that in a left turn my body positioning is better because I'm extra cautious. On right hander, I'm over confident and tend to get sloppy

"I can't find my dick at the moment" also made my day lol
Hub you're funnier than a drill sergeant, what's the name of the character DeNiro plays in Men of Honor! Dogo a clip please? lol

140 to 160 speeds are sweeper speeds, not apex speed. Apex, you are dragging shit. Sweepers, you are more upright following the curve around.

I agree, two different animals.

Thought track days would "get it outta my system"... Nope... Entered a "suggested" 25mph 180 degree left hander in triple digits the other day... was dragging a knee over the turtles @ the apex. Kinda hurt.

CRAZY! Our roads here keep me on my toes. You've got a 20mph suggested speed in the first three corners, and you go through them knowing you could have done double and then as you jack your speed up for the next one you realize you went in too hot! lol

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I whould recomend to watch Keith Code`s Twist of the wrist 2.
You can buy the dvd at amazon, but dont download it from piratebay couse thats illeagel.....

"I will pick up a lot of speed when I start to hang off. I wanna maximize everything".

I want to maximize my FUN!!!!I watched my buddy ride my bike yesterday on the return trip from another town some 80+ miles away.It was interesting watching my bike being ridden by someone else...compared to his Busa(from the back that is).We were hitting big azz triple digit curves...he was barely leaning...nowhere near the limit.I 'felt' I was really diggin in on his Busa.I've got some vids of it...haven't really checked em out yet.But I'll say this....if that's all he was leaning on those curves that I regularly ride...and I've got only 1/2 or less rubber left...actually less than that...I must be friggin leanin WAY harder.IDK....maybe I'm going WAY faster when I'm by myself? Seemed to me we were 'near' the same speeds I normally ride...but perhaps not.The big Ninja definitely feels more surefooted than his Busa at those speeds.I'll keep my baby....she's a rocker roller fer sure.I'd have to say...I think I was "getting off to the side'...way more than he was on my bike...for sure.Maybe he just didn't want to have a wreck with my bike...could have been it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/12/2012 @ 7:53 PM *

Suddenly, I want a samich.
J's first track day is this coming Fri... gonna work on dem lines.

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J's first track day is this coming Fri... gonna work on dem lines

lol You see what happens when you take it slow for the noob behind you... he gets confident and spoil you fun lol
Hub had to do a solo run to get that out of his system lol just kidding
I love the sound of the CT as you get away Dogo...
Hub, you've got some good lines! It comes from skills of course but I can tell you could ride those roads blindfolded. It's difficult to pick a line when you're in a blind corner and you don't know what's coming!
I'm just going to pick a road and ride it x times per week and relive it through the go pro. That plus track days should bring me up to speed.

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