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Thread: Neutral Indicator Woes

Created on: 08/12/14 11:59 AM

Replies: 15

pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 11:59 AM

Hello, new owner of a 2009 here. Obligatory Pic(sorry it's blurry, it was a quickie):

Anyway, the bike has 11,300 miles. Mods: HID head lights, fender eliminator, tank protector.

The problem: The green neutral light indicator flickers or stays solid all the time, no matter what gear I'm in. The gear indicator on the display screen flicks between the correct gear and 'N' about the same amount.

My guess would be that when the previous owner installed the HID kit, maybe he crossed a wire under the dash area and the neutral light lead is being grounded as the bike vibrates.

But I wanted to post this here before I take the whole front fairings off to see if you all knew of a known problem with the neutral indicator light. If it's a known problem that'll make my job much easier.


* Last updated by: pjgeorgejr on 8/12/2014 @ 12:00 PM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

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RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 12:04 PM

Does the gear indicator work on the multifunction meter or does it also indicate N all the time?



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 12:07 PM

Ah, that's what you call it. :) Yes, above I called that the 'display screen'. It flickers between N and the correct gear. Sometimes the correct gear stays there, other times it flickers to N and other times it's solid on N while I'm in 5th or 6th or whatever.

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jimmymac


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Location:

K.C. MO Northland

Joined: 07/02/14

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RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 12:11 PM

It's not a common problem. I can assure you of that.



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Neilp


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Brisbane, Australia

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RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 3:29 PM

Does it have Ivan's tre installed?


Neil



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pjgeorgejr


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RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 4:28 PM

I do not think so. But I wouldn't know how to tell either. I think this weekend I'm going to pull off the front fairings and have a look around.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13784

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 6:31 PM

GPS has 2 wires that throws either the N or 6.
My guess is the wire would set the N solid, therefore no wire at the connector is the problem?
My guess is the T-pin that inserts into the end of drum and turns with the drum is this pin is thrown, but is in between throws? Sometimes you see the 6 and sometimes you see the N?

1. Connector not connected: Not it. Why? You see it shift on up and down so it has to be connected.

2. Wire out of connector: Not it. Why? It still sends 1-N-2-3-4-5-6/N so no wire out of connector.

3. Short to ground, no ground, etc.: Bingo! This is it? That pin throw is being thrown thru the gears, but once at top gear, this moves in and out as if the pin throw was pushed with more momentum on the shift. So the guess is, sometimes a shift is not as fast without the momentum to send the pin farther. You'd think, as if the pin is landing in a pocket and not a flat push, but the pin is more sunk in a groove and the throw was lost due to the pocket keeping the pin from moving into that 6 number; the 555 ping is checking all the time and it's stuck at a midpoint. Now, the ping does not make it to the 6 as the signal. The pin sits in the middle of 6 and 5. There is a lost resistance and that being in the middle sitting position between 5-6, thus a code sent in N [and that is that wire]. Now, is this pin fine and no pocket so the throw outside is fine? Internally, the pin is moving, but something slipped off internally?

So when Rook mentioned to ohm check the gps wires, we can see the resistance climb/swing as the gears change, and that is the wire we want. With the right hand at the back wheel and that wheel is off the ground, spin that wheel in any direction you can really get a spin on. Then, at the same time [almost], you pull the shift lever up with your left hand and if timed well, timed right, you moved the safety shift out of the centrifugal lock. Spin the back wheel fore and aft as you shift up with the lever.

Obviously, you'll check the connection integrity of 1 and 2's troubleshoot so those are cleared as variables. Then, you use the ohm meter to show how the bike shifts using the ohm's resistance scale and watch that display as well. If it hangs up at the meter, goes blank without a signal, you shifted with more speed to check again? Then, it's the physical switch, not the wiring being loose, not connected, etc.

Recap:

1. Key on with battery charger on and front headlight fuse pulled.
2. Bike is out of the safety lock and is in 6th gear.
3. The scenario goes; I shift into 6th and here is N. I now wiggle the green connector and if it flickers, it's the male/female not connect, or if say, no wires can gently be pulled out of either side of the connector. We checked the wires and connectors meaning.
4. I found no joy as the wire yanking made no difference pulling or reconnecting.
5. I disconnect the green connection for a second time. I use the g/r wire, shift and if no joy showing a change of resistance, I move to the other wire:
a. wire grn/red tracer = 6 lock
b. wire light green = Goes to dash to display shift number or letter code.
c. wire black = this may be the oil pressure switch wire?
d. wire 4 in the block may have a black wire on one side and a black/yell or a blk/white tracer on the other side of the green connector. This is ground. See my 4 wires in that green connector?
6. I have those 2 wires that narrows down to one. One spits out a code in N, the other wire spits a code in 6. So find the N wire, and that is the one the ohm meter will show a change in resistances.
7. When I shift to 6th, I have joy or it hangs up and no ohm display = It's the gps switch.



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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

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RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 6:52 PM

Sometimes the correct gear stays there, other times it flickers to N and other times it's solid on N while I'm in 5th or 6th or whatever.

The TRE is a resistor that is installed in a wire. It locks the gear indicator in N thus keeping the bike in the stock mapping for N. The N map does not retard timing in gears 1-4. Well, anyway, if you have a TRE, the Gear indicator will constantly read N except in 5 and 6. sounds like you have a TRE and it may have a bad connection. I never had a TRE so IDK where to tell you to look. From the pic in this ad, I'd say it is hooked inline down by the speed sensor on the lower left hand side.
Shnitz, TRE ZX-14

If it's there, I would keep it on the bike if you don't mind the gear indicator being disabled..but you should find out why it is flickering in 5 and 6. My SpeedHealer has the same white connectors as a TRE and they WILL short and go haywire if they get wet. Have you washed the bike lately?

Here is where to look. It's the wire coming off of the sensor that mounts to the sprocket cover.

If the sensor wire couplers are both black, no TRE. If you have some whites hooked inline with the blacks, and you see a small cylinder hanging from the whites, you have TRE.


It would look a lot like this.


The first and last few steps of this SpeedoHealer installation tutorial may help. There is some info about the connectors.

SpeedHeal V-4 Install
I hope this is it. Note in the tutorial, I taped the female connector, the catch did not seem to work. That would cause a loose connection. I ended up tapng up both connectors because of the moisture problem.


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/12/2014 @ 6:58 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 8:39 PM

That's great info, thanks. But I found the pieces you referenced and mine are all stock black. I suspect my problem is more like a lose connection near the indicator light in the dash. I will take it apart this weekend and have look. Thanks!

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13784

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/12/14 11:28 PM

jr,

If I said:

lite green shows the dash box display and the gps wire spits out the N.

My question is, what are you doing up at the dash when N is triggered by the gps switch. How could you conclude N is somewhere in the dash and N is triggered by another color wire, not light green.

We on the same page light green is working when it displays the number or letter? I would think if the light green is sending in the number or letter, that dash seems to work fine. If the N pops up, this is caused by the gps switch or wire.

You can take all that plastic apart and suit yourself, but how you describe it, my first move is at the gps wires then the switch then the dash. You are starting in the reverse. Just saying there is a pattern the locking of the N and it's never been at the dash if I recall.



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pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 4:54 AM

Hub, my apologies. I was using my little phone and only saw Rook's reply. Your troubleshooting plan sounds perfect. I appreciate the tips. I can do this after work today.

Rook, here's a pic of my plugs down there. They seems to be all stock. (FYI, I moved the idle adjustment screw out of the way just for the pic)


* Last updated by: pjgeorgejr on 8/13/2014 @ 4:57 AM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20814

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 11:53 AM

Yep that looks like stock wires. No TRE there for sure.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 4:42 PM

Well, I'm in here now and for the life of me I can't put the bike into anything but first or neutral while it is sitting here in my garage. What's the trick?

Also, why does it have to be sixth gear? It is flickering neutral in all gears, 1-6.

I have disconnected and reconnected the three plugs a couple times each. So if it was a loose connection it should help. Also none of the wires coming out of any of those connectors are loose or look tampered with.

On the way home today I noticed the flickering is sometimes directly related to the bumps I am going over on the road. It's gotta be a short somewhere. Or a loose connection. I'll keep poking around, any other suggestion gladly welcomed.


* Last updated by: pjgeorgejr on 8/13/2014 @ 4:42 PM *

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pjgeorgejr


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Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 19

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 5:16 PM

So check this out, I button everything up - done for the evening. Get on the bike, start it up, drop into first and start going back and forth in the garage - just little lurches and it's solid N/Green light the whole time. Just for kicks I jam my hand under the dash and start touching wires under there. Immediately it starts to flicker into 1. So keep poking and isolate the one wire that, when I put a little tension on, I get a solid 1, no green! I tried to take pic, it's a tight place... I'm gonna have to go in there this weekend and see what's up.


* Last updated by: pjgeorgejr on 8/13/2014 @ 5:17 PM *

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13784

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 7:09 PM

pj, I think you found it.

'On the way home today I noticed the flickering is sometimes directly related to the bumps I am going over on the road.'

So, another way would keep it in 1st, abort the trick to 6th. That's more or less the walk. Walk backwards or walk forwards at the gear position or dash down to the gps. Your instinct was the dash, I was more or less thinking throw, but now that you mention flicker, see the different variables?



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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13784

RE: Neutral Indicator Woes
08/13/14 7:15 PM

Not only that, look how N pops up with the light colored green wire. Why did not the 6 pop up? Wire trivia clue is all this is tied to.



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