I had the 1st oil change done by the dealer recently.

He had the cycle parked out on a level ramp area when I picked it up after he finished.

I checked the oil level by balancing the cycle up on the tires and eyeballed the spirit level. There appeared to be too much oil indicated, it was above the top level mark when I had it balanced at "mid-point" (not leaning left or right)...

I complained, and the service manager scratched his head after he checked it himself and verified what I saw. He then put the cycle back up on the lift (where it was when it was re-filled) and then re-checked the oil level. What he saw (he did not show me) was that it was not over-filled while on the service lift, and then said that's the way it should be, there's nothing wrong and nothing to "fix".

I decided not to argue, but every time I eyeball the spirit level, it looks over-filled to me while parked on the pavement and checked.

Who's right?

Thanks...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't have a 2012 but the manual for my 2009 section 7-8 ENGINE LUBRICATION SYSTEM Says: "..oil level is between the upper (A) and lower (B) levels in the gauge.". Then under "Note" says : "Situate the motorcycle so that it is perpendicular to the ground.".

my guess here is that when we try and situate the bike vertical to check the oil we may think we have it perpendicular to the ground when it really maybe just a little off, which will affect the level we are looking at while we are trying to hold the bike.

Those with stands, or the dealers work station should eliminate that slight variable. I need to get a stand

Instead of a using a stand to check the oil, get an expandable mechanics mirror. Flatfoot the bike while sitting on it, and use the mirror to take a look.

and FWIW, on the rear stand, my 14's oil level is NOT correct. too much tilt to the frt. so just a stand wont help with this.

maybe if I put it up on frt and rear's, but I had the rear stand at my friends house so he can weld a handle on it.

I have also read of people using a board or boards under the kickstand to level the bike really quick - just to check the oil. cheap solution, easy... Just be sure it doesn't go over to the rt. keep a hold on it.

* Last updated by: rod442 on 8/5/2012 @ 8:26 AM *

are you sure his lift was level. just saying.

I'd say...put the recommended oil in the engine...either with or without the filter change(whichever you're doing).If you're not comfortable holding the bike perpendicular,get a 2X4 and put it under the stand.Then check your level(after you've started it and let the oil circulate some)shut it off..let it sit for a couple of minutes...whatever it is...remember it.Next time you check,do it the same way.That's one way to check it.Like heathun said...lifts,stands...usually not level front to back.A rear stand will be WAY off.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/5/2012 @ 10:11 AM *

Heathun:

I don't know if the dealer service dept lift is level or not, but you have a valid point. The dealer obviously believes it's level, and I was not intelligent enough to ask about his frequency of inspections within the service bays (Oh, OK, and how often do you check you servive lift for level? Oh, you dont do this? Hmmmm...).

Dericrey, Grn14:

I think your's is the best advice so far. Believe the documentation. It also implies that the eyeball check using the spirit level is acceptable while cycle is vertical, "perpendicular" to the ground, and lifted to vertical while perched on the tires (as opposed to perched on a lift).

I'm not saying "Oh, I'm right. I have the only correct method." But, since I dont know about the dealer's lift (as to what's level, side-to-side, and front-to-back), and since I do have some validation from the documentation (thanks, folks), that I'll use the ideas you've suggested.

Thanks very much.

If you're having the dealer replace your filter and oil...there's really no reason to think it won't be right if he's knowledgeable about the 14 oil levels.With and without filter change.Regardless of what he puts the bike on....long as he's doing the complete job...it'll be right.Kinda what I was getting at.You know it takes a certain amount.You replace,and check...wherever it's sitting in the sight glass...if you check it the same way everytime...it HAS to be accurate.I balance my bike.To me...that's the easiest way.Hold the front brake,lean the bike towards me...feel when it's balanced...and check.Only takes a second or so.Being in between the lines...that's what the manual calls for.So you know...when it feels balanced...it will kinda stay that way until you let go...check the level...that's where it should be.

I rather hold on to my bike,as opposed to putting it on a 2X4...although that will give a consistent read.The 2x4 raise is VERY CLOSE to the tip point of the bike...so if you're coming around the front...and somehow brush into it,you COULD conceivably push it off center...I've kinda had that happen...but I caught her before she went towards the other side.You have to be careful doing it like that.I'd rather be next to my bike,and pulling it towards me than any other way.You can stop it if it begins to fall in at you.EASY.You can feel it when it's sitting level.No problem.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/6/2012 @ 11:24 PM *

I put mine on the front and rear stand when I do my filter and oil. I don't fill it all the way to the upper level (there's an upper level mark and a lower level mark) as long as the oil falls in between the 2 it doesn't matter. I run mine a little above the half way mark so to much oil is never an issue. Running to much oil in an engine can cause problems.

"oil falls in between the 2 it doesn't matter".Yeppers!

If you don't start the engine and let it circulate for a minute or two...ESPECIALLY if you've changed the filter..it's not going to read correctly.If your dealer didn't run the bike...just handed it off to you...then...yeah...he probably would be scratching his head wondering..."WTH?I KNOW I did it right!"

The 'balance point' will always stay the same...you get er balanced,and check...it'll always be accurate.That's just the way I do it....other ways are just as good.Long as she's level side to side and front to back..The main thing is to remember WHERE it was sitting after you replaced it,oil and filter,or just oil.AFTER you start the motor and shut er down.

I think the 'mirror' idea is pretty imaginative....probably be a lot easier all the way around!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/5/2012 @ 1:50 PM *

I run mine a little above the half way mark so to much oil is never an issue. Running to much oil in an engine can cause problems.

Yeah, this is the point of why I started this thread.

There were other folks writing about how running too much oil in this cycle is a bad thing, and responses writing about how problems ...could be indicated by this, could be that... could be too much oil... so, How does one determine when ya got too much?

Seems simple, right?

We all now agree on how to determine what the proper amount is, and it's relatively easy to do so.

***BUT***, using the methods we have just agreed upon, my dealer let me drive away with too much oil. He believes the cycle had to be perched on his (supposedly level) lift to determine the correct "full" amount. That same amount of oil, when perched on two tires and brought to vertical (using the methods Heathun and Grn have written) was clearly over filled.

I'm gonna go out and fix it now, and I will point him to his documentation next time him and I go round about this.

Thanks for the edu-ma-cation, folks.

Ya...it can happen.Especially if the dealer mech doesn't KNOW how much to put in...and just goes by 'between the lines' thing.That might not be accurate at all...as you found out.It might just be a lot simpler to do it yourself....it's quite easy actually.I just find that doing things myself is a lot more trustworthy(for me)than relying on someone else to judge that for me.Not everything...but most stuff.Plus my mech KNOWS Kawasaki's inside out...has worked with me since 2002...when I got my zzr1200.ALWAYS does an excellent professional job.I can call him any time and ask.."Whattaya think" about anything...he'll tell me....the straight deal one way or another.He doesn't keep maintenance 'secrets' from me.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/5/2012 @ 2:19 PM *

Look it's not rocket science. Drain the oil, remove the filter. Place on new filter and drain plug, add 3 quarts of oil. Start the bike watch oil pressure light and make sure the pressure rises and light goes off. Shut bike off let oil settle back in oil pan then check level and add needed oil to get mid ways between the lines. At that point you know the oil level is fine and the bike has an adequate oil level. Did it require 3.7 liters? hell who knows it really doesn't matter, oil level is adequate.

every time I eyeball the spirit level, it looks over-filled to me while parked on the pavement and checked.
Who's right?

Benn over this and over this and over this...

All you really can do is drain the bike well (a few hours at least....I sometimes drain it hot for a few hours and then replug it only to drain the last couple ounces that run down the next day. Put a new filter on and put the specced capacity of oil that is called for for "new filter and crankcase." It will say in your owners manual.

As for checking by sight, you got the idea, you must balance the bike on the tires so it could be held by your fingertip. Also, you must get down to the sightglass so you can actually look right at it face to face. Use a mirror or ask a partner to look for you while you hold the bike. Always check cold and always check with the bike on the same surface in the same position. As long as the oil level looks the same every day it's good. The cold check oil level will change a bit from a hot day to a cold day, however.

There is a reason they didn't make this easy to read or precise. This is not an exact science. Lots of variables come into play. If it was easy to read, many of us would be running back to the dealership asking why the oil level never was exactly where it should be.

See the last paragraph on this tutorial

Rook, Heathun:

I'm very grateful for your patience with me. I get it, I understand how to do the check, and to be patient with the draining process.

Can we call it a day, now, please?

Thanks very much for your help, really, I mean it.

sure. Sorrry if I sounded like I was sick of singing the same old tune. Glad to repeat stuff as often as necessary because there are always new owners out there like I was back in 08. Always ask any time you don't know the answer. Works every time around here!!

Thanks, Rook.

You Da Man!

* Last updated by: mebgardner on 8/7/2012 @ 3:28 PM *

Mine is always a little over full and the sky did not fall and it is still running. All that means is that it is not qt over full which might cause a couple problems. If it says 3.7 qts I will empty the gallon into it.

To each their own and youns all know that the dip sticks on your cages are really inaccurate but how often do you hear people complaining about that?

with a brand new filter, I put in 4 and a quarter- 4 and a third quarts. Think the exact was 1 gallon 8 oz.

I have only changed oil once so far, but it will be due after I get back from Indy in another week or so. Last time, I poured in 4 qts, ran it for a minute or two to fill the filter and the galleries and then topped off until it hit the top line of the sight glass with the weight on the wheels and vertical. It's still right there.

* Last updated by: Danno on 8/8/2012 @ 4:49 PM *

I suppose I should tell my service manager...

I removed about 3/4 qt. overfill too much that he indicated was "good to go" after putting it back up on the lift, and re-checking it (after I said "There's too much in there...", see top of this thread).

If it takes ~ 4 qts to fill, then 3/4 qt. is, what, about 20% too much? It's too much and could have been trouble, later.

It's too much and could have been trouble, later.

yes possibly. you have almost half a quart extra in there....I don't think that would damage a thing but ewhy run the motor like thst...likely to cause a mess of oil spray in airbox, at least. according to my owners manual, 4 1/3 qts is just right for engine + new dry oil filter.

capacity
3.7 L (3.9 qts) when filter was not removed

4.1 L (4.3 qts) when filter is removed (that comes to 4 qts + 10 oz) this is what i put in after a good 4 - 5 hours or more drain. brings the level up close to the upper line but not over.

4.5 L (4.8 qts) when engine and filter are completely dry (you will never see the motor totally dry unless you replace it with a new one)

Thanks for the numbers, Rook.

Yuh, 3/4 qt. drained to get it to indicate to upper limit (that's where I left it), not to the mid-point between lower and upper...

I just called the service manager, too. I had a pleasant exchange with him, and he kindly listened to the info I had for him.

* Last updated by: mebgardner on 8/9/2012 @ 1:20 PM *

I think mine is an ounce over...what should I do?

Well, I thought that would be obvious.

You drain it, it's slippery, you use it. Have fun with that.