660 to 1320 ...Brocks/ Guhl 3.10 Cblast/Nels 3.10 ... Dead Heat !!! No winner ..

Your posts are revealing your lack of knowledge in this area. Every quantifiable way to test our flash has been proven. I'm not interested in zero capacity for learning.

No, your posts are revealing. I can only bring to the table what has resulted. I don't need a dyno. I'm guessing a preset you can't break out of. Both hit 3.10 as in a dead heat limp. I'm seeing one quantifiable test that has been proven to break even. I'm not interested in break even tunes and everyone has a dyno. So making comments as if you won the whole round, face it, you came up short in the long haul if not broke even.

I learned a zero sum deal is the deal. Mess with the preset... Go head. I told you so. Tell me where Smoke's bike lied, he sandbagged, fill in the blanks. Even Smoke said there was grunt but something was lost up top. Wat feels like a flash to me, feels like a hack to me. That's what kind of result I was looking for and who needed a dyno when my ass even felt the same as Smoke's. Only the hand release knows for sure. That's a lot of hit and miss ass tuning and I even get it.

Signed,

Even though it felt great it didn't produce the MPH I felt it would

Not once have I ever experienced a hard to start situation either...never, that is odd. Hub, you are a hateful old fart, and I'll just leave it at that.

* Last updated by: Nastynotch on 10/31/2014 @ 5:02 AM *

Never said I was a tuner, or a poet.

Finally my friend something we can both agree on!

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 10/31/2014 @ 4:14 AM *

Thanks smokin for the update! The starting issue is interesting, it looks like by a few responses others aren't experiencing this issue. In the few months I've been here, I've never seen a similar complaint. I think if this was a common issue there would be other complaints. Although sometimes people do keep secrets out of embarrassment.

So far this looks great for CBlast. Matching performance is a win for Cblast. How's that? CBlast wins in expense. For average rider, paying $400 for a Cblast for equal and in some ways better performance (mid-range/smoothness which is commonly reported) is far less than $375 for the Guhls (IIRC) and $400 for PCV (minimal). Granted, some utility is lost as PCV map updates would be easier to do, but for the average rider this isn't going to be an issue anyway. Someone could add PCV or similar unit to cblast flash setup too. But one claim Cblast has maintained is it can be done in the ECU, and your results back that.

Just great!Good job guys on the flash...test...and safe runs!Tell ya this...I KNOW my bike gets with it definitely in virtually all areas of RPMS...much more than stock...along with the smooth operation throughout.Ya...never had that start issue either.Fires right up;)Again...great job!Personally...I wouldn't go back to a PCV.I can't feel a need for extra stuff...and extra headaches if something goes south.In fact...never have I had a PC map run anything near the Cblast Flash....and I've had a few(Mapped by 'the experts).(PC maps that is;) )

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/31/2014 @ 7:06 AM *

Thank you Grn and Vic and everyone else for all the positive comments! When the back half MPH is 4 greater first time out, that's strong EVERYWHERE! Thanks again to Smokin and to Nels! And thanks to everyone that has been so supportive since day 1. I absolutely love what I do, being able to bring performance and refinement to the everyday rider at a higher level has been a driving passion from the beginning. Now people have a chance to feel data logged refined tunes that perform on a level pigs can't match! Welcome to the Cblasted family Smokin!

Runs in order

Two fastest runs from each flash ... Brocks/Guhl Vs Cblast / Nels

From what I'm seein here...it looks like with Lee as the pilot...and getting these results...there's MORE to be had from the CBlast flash....I mean...as it sits right now.I'm thinking 'conditions' here...that's what I mean.Not ECU adjustments.Most excellent Lee,C,and Nels.

IF I'm getting this right...the TOP SPEED is a hands down win for C...and those other times...the larger the number...the 'slower' it was?(Those are 'times' from point a to b?)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/31/2014 @ 9:33 AM *

PC may have its uses, but NOT for most street riders that have a proper flash, the first thing
most of those "other guys" did was try to sell me a PCV with their flash, Cblast NEVER tried to get me
to use a PCV, I have never used a PC, and probably never will, that's my personal preference,
and remember, power commander is a multi million dollar company, at least according to the
financial statements I have seen, nothing wrong with that, except I don't think most people
need them WITH a proper flash, I have read from guys that have been tuning since the 70's
and still are, and they have said they don't use PC, they use flashes on the new bikes, I
will not say who it is, since I did not get permission to use his name.

Just my 2 cents.

Now lets talk about this runs .. First off since 2005 we ( all ) Motorcycle racers have complained about the MPH and the wild swings in MPH .. Guys on bikes are running the same numbers ( ET ) but they will have wild swings in their MPH .. We have tried to get the track owner to address this Problem , their answer to the problem is " Well the car guys say their MPH stays the same run after run , so we see no problem " In other words they don't care if the bike guys are having a problem with the MPH .. Case in point .. Teddy ran his fastest pass but it showed 10 MPH loss on that run compared to his other runs that night ..

So for that reason guys I don't want you to read to much into the MPH numbers ..We just can't trust them ..My thinking on this as well as others is the way the beams at the end of the track see a motorcycle rim and tire Vs how it sees a larger Car wheel and tire .. You will note that I ran all my passes in the same lane , and I do that for a reason .. The tower side lane is always 3 to 4 MPH different than the pit side lane .. Again for some reason the car guys run the same MPH in either lane .. This sees to be a motorcycle problem only ..Any time I'm testing I use the same lane for all tests as I did last night ..

Now look at the last 2 pictures post above .. 8.58 to 8.60 , that is a two hundreds difference ..Now note the 60 foot times on those two runs 1.33 to a 1.35 .. again two hundreds difference .. Had I run 1.33 and not a 1.35 the runs would have been both 5.58 runs or darn close to each other .. There is a 3.71 MPH difference between the two runs ( read the first paragraph again ) ... Now look at the back half numbers 3.10 Vs 3.10 , This tells me that both flashes are making the same HP ..I use the back half ETs and not the MPH to see improvements in tune or other changes to the bike ..If I see a better back half numbers I know I'm making more power .. In this case the testing showed both flashes made the same HP even if the MPH was different .. I knew this going in .. My bike makes 202 HP and Cblast said that his flash makes 202 .. So the back half numbers make sense to me ..

Cblast / Nels flash did feel much cleaner in first gear , it pulled harder and was very very crisp ..But as I said before it didn't show in the 1/8 mile numbers to be any better that the Brocks /flash ..This is completely understandable because I only spend 1 to 2 seconds in that RPM zone .. The rest of the run the bike is at 9700 to 11200 in each gear .. This makes seeing first gear gains very hard to see on a time ticket ..But I can feel the Improvement !! It is there even if I can't see it in ET and MPH ...It felt as I had added two teeth to the rear sprocket in first gear ..It completely removed the bog I feel in Brocks /Guhl flash ..

So with that said I don't think we will see much gain in the 1/4 mile between the two flashes.. ( I have said this before and told Cblast on the phone this might happen drag racing because I use so little of the power band where his flash feels to shine much better than Brocks/Guhls flash )

More testing need to be done to prove all this 100% , 5 runs is just not going to give us all the info needed to claim a outright winner ..I also need better air to see if the Cblast/Nels flash can bust into the 8.30s and beat my 8.42 set up ..

As far as street riding , from what I felt last night from the small time I spent on the lower RPM range I feel Cblst/Nels flash will be faster and more rider friendly because the street rider will spend more time in the lower and mid range numbers ..

I just got off the phone with Cblast and I feel we have found the problem with the starting , it has nothing to do with his flash ... Cblast will make a post shortly and fill you in on what happened and why it happened ..We both feel that this mistake on my part will also yeld more power that I had last night and we should feel and see bigger gains than we did at last night test and tune .. Stay tuned ,, more to come .. :)

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 10/31/2014 @ 4:16 PM *

".I also need better air to see if the Cblast/Nels flash can bust into the 8.30s and beat my 8.42 set up .."...okay Lee...thanks for explaining all that to me...BTW...I'm certainly NOT bashing or minimizing anyone's flash...not even...I just was curious really about what those numbers represented.I think with 'better' air and such...you will beat your times....that'd be very cool for you personally;)

Also...I had my ECU updated recently by C(key word...'updated';) )...for my Brock's 4 into 1.Haven't been able to go out for a test run yet(it's REALLY killing me lol)...but by what you're saying...it sounds like I have quite a joy in store for me;)Up here...with the altitude going on...it's a 'negative' against the Flash and all...but not really a bummer...she still kicks azz totally.I really want to get her down to sea level some time...dyno her...and ride.I expect she'll behave a bit different;)Sa'll good though...my flashed ecu is killer nice...I really like how it performs;)There's really NOTHING up here in any class that can match the performance I get from the C flash....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/31/2014 @ 10:55 AM *

Excellent assessment Lee, and I too have always wondered about the mph being so different. When I used to drag race my mustang, my mph was never more than .5 difference pass to pass nor was my E.T. and that was with a stick shift. One night I ran 5 passes in a row that were all 11.08@122.46. I should have been bracket racing that night.

You know...out of all the flashes I've tried...and PCV combos...I really think C has the heart of what us 14/14R riders want from our big azz Ninjas.His flashes aren't just copies of someone elses work...these are his and nels personal designs.They're extremely tuned in with the capabilities of getting the most from these motors...stock.I think it's just great!Props to C and Nels....big time;)I'm very happy with mine.

I really believe C and Nels are gonna take this even further....refining...this really is a real life 'drama' if you will....the beginning of something REALLY good;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/31/2014 @ 11:18 AM *

Thank you so much for your hard work Lee. Everytime we talk I am inspired by your passion and dedication to speed. It seems the intracacies of acceleration are endless. I am privledged to learn sir.

Re: start issue, really glad we figured it out! The code 39 was symptomatic of the 0838 part no not speaking correctly where a 0714 is used as the standard Ecu. Slightly different locations of numerical blocks being different. Starting problem was an extrapolation of this, and while the flash exampled itself well, there is definitely more there. We solve this by simply utilizing the correct part no. for the specific machine, re-flash, and done. Can't wait! Maximum potential has yet to be realized, with fantastic results thus far!

Glad that got figured out!

It felt as I had added two teeth to the rear sprocket in first gear ..It completely removed the bog I feel in Brocks /Guhl flash ..

I'm so fuckin happy! We worked our asses off! I have been 'WOOOT-ING!' All day! Man I love this machine! Thanks again to Nels for all the hard work, for all the teaching, for the belief in everything from day one! Logic and math cannot be denied. If there is a way to maximize the potential of a machine you and I can do it. We have done it. We will continue to do it. The cutting edge is where we live every single day. Thank you sir! I will be there bright and early Tuesday for the NO PC Turbo build.

... Now look at the back half numbers 3.10 Vs 3.10 , This tells me that both flashes are making the same HP

... I use the back half ETs and not the MPH to see improvements in tune or other changes to the bike ..If I see a better back half numbers I know I'm making more power

... In this case the testing showed both flashes made the same HP even if the MPH was different .. I knew this going in .. My bike makes 202 HP and Cblast said that his flash makes 202 .. So the back half numbers make sense to me ..

Basically, no gain in HP, just gain out of the gate in a cleaner less rich setting. I agree, too inconclusive to give the nod to either flash. No top HP gain buy either flash. Run flash for flash and leave that every so slightly rich pig out of the loop.

A .582 is long way from an 8.42 and I don't think even a better starting lash will get it there. JMO. Damn! I should have started a bet about an '8.5-mid' was where my guess was? A .582 is a long way away from hitting the 4's.

I think the pig needed to be tuned at the track for that round. Not about to bring a summer map made in some room and now head out to a cool day months later? I think the pig has more left in it.

And I need to state the She/ane-Cap10 of being short in the top end where all Shane did was remove the limiter and basically ran the OE map and it outperformed... Did it not? So, do you take salt with that? When you can flat out beat the factory, I'll be hoot'inn and holler'inn witcha, but if you reached the preset?

Signed,

Hail to the Truth Tables that kept you in check. Even hard starting it truth'd that move and fired up.

Hub, when it comes to slicing and dicing the numbers on the drag strip, leave it to the people who live this shit. I can tell you have zero experience on the 1320.

Thank you, C for offering Smoke your burn. Thank you, 'The Hand' for trying out the tunes back to back. I think I had a premonition and something to do with a 'preset?' This sort of quantifies the 3.10 vs. 3.10 of it.

Good luck to you both on the next test and tune.

You have always been real big on premonitions and guesses. Doesn't build a tune.

It felt as I had added two teeth to the rear sprocket in first gear ..It completely removed the bog I feel in Brocks /Guhl flash ..

It takes a hand to know a hand. Can you grasp that and shake on it lol. Let me ask you, when you were drag racing in high school, did you have a reputation at the drag strip about someone, 'who could cut a light?' I didn't think so. Want proof?

notchy you start in wit me I see that mailbox tune you're wearing. You're not going to tell me you race? What, race to the best bleacher with you seat cushion and watch them run the 1320?

Guys lets not put the cart before the horse here , We need to iron out the starting problem and get back to the track ..As I said before this is going to take a few trips to the track before we have a clear picture ..I want the Data as bad you guys do but it takes time to fully test this stuff and get the Data ..So hang on to you undies for a little longer and we will iron all this out ..The answer we are all looking for is will the flash beat my 8.42 ..We (me) all want it to do just that ..But we have to do it first before we call a winner in this horse race ..

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 10/31/2014 @ 4:29 PM *