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Thread: Chain center on rear sprocket?

Created on: 08/26/12 07:21 PM

Replies: 28

mebgardner


mebgardner's Gravatar

Location: Tucson, AZ

Joined: 05/08/12

Posts: 738

RE: Chain center on rear sprocket?
09/15/12 1:52 PM

Update:

I find myself in the position of having to build a case that will support a warranty claim. I'm keeping good notes now...

The cycle is still in the shop today, a week later.

Some key developments:

09/07/2012:

I calculated the amount of mis-alignment thus: The tool bar is ~180 mm, and it is ~3 mm thick (long round and thin). The amount of mis-alignment over the length of the tool bar was ~ 1/2 of the bar width (~1.5 mm). The chain runs ~760mm (30 in.) from front to rear sprocket, measured along the top of the chain. Projecting this amount of misalignment over the entire length of the chain run yields: ((760 /180) * 1.5 ) = 6.333 mm offset (mis-alignment) over the length of the chain run. This is ~0.25 in. A quarter inch... This measurement indicates there is an offset of at least 0.25 inch front sprocket to rear sprocket, over the length of the run of the chain. At that moment, that much misalignment seemed like a bunch, a lot... It's no wonder I could readily see it in the chain-to-rear-sprocket fit...

Now that I have this data, I call the Performance Cycle Center service department. Mike (the manager) is on vacation. I speak with Doug, the current service manager fill-in (and a long term, well qualified, service technican at this dealership). I explain to Doug the entire history and alignment check I've just performed. He tells me he remembers my initial acceptance inspection results (he was there and part of that team), and I request I drop off the cycle for check and service. He agrees and I transport the cycle to the shop.

I fill out the service intake form, and leave the chain alignment tool with him.

09/08/2012:

Doug performs the same eyeball sight using the tool and then indicates he also now sees the tool's indicated mis-alignment. (It;'s easiest to see the result when viewed from above, looking down on the top of the tool's bar).

I explain to him how the measurement is made. He agrees and I ask him to confirm the amount of tool indicated mis-alignment. It is approximately 1/2 of the tool's bar width (~1.5mm) over the length of the tool's bar (180mm). He confirms the measurement. He sees it... I pull out a metal tape measue I brought along, and measure down the length of the chain's run, from front to back sprocket. I show him it's ~ 30 inches....

I tell him the calculated result: 0.25 inch offset over the length of the chain's run, front sprocket to back sprocket.

He states that amount of offset is "excessive", and out of tolerance. This is the trained service tech telling me this...


09/13/2012:

I receive a call from Mike (the manager) at the cycle service center. He has contacted the "main" Kawasaki Service Center, and he has a response from them regarding my cycle issue. He tells me that the rear axle wheel alignment is sufficient to fix the issue. They have told him, and he is informing me, that if the rear wheel axle alignment is performed and in spec (according to the service manual), then the front to rear sprocket alignment is of no importance. The rear axle alignment is sufficient to make the cycle aligned and safe. He tells me I should pick it up and ride it.

I tell him that I can see an obvious chain mis-alignment and that I do not accept this response.

I tell him that, *if* the cycle was correctly manufactured, and that the correctly build cycle's drive train and chassis was within expected tolerances, *then* his (their) assertion that only rear axle alignment would be necessary, would be correct.

I tell him I believe *this* example of the cycle is not correctly built, and that it does not meet manufacturing tolerances. If it did, this obvious chain mis-alignment (front to rear sprocket misalignment) would not be present...

Mike agrees that he can see the results of the front to rear sprocket mis-alignment from the tool I provide.

Mike then requests I call the service center myself. I agree and he gives me the phone number and log number.


09/14/2012:

I call the CA. Kaw Service Center

Nathan and I have a 20 minute talk. Here's the upshot, Kaw's position:

1) There *are* manufacturing tolerances that the cycle is built to meet (he mentions this 3 times during the conversation).
2) The front sprocket to rear sprocket alignment tolerance is unknown because it's not published in the service manual.
3) Since the tolerance is not published in the service manual, then there is no test for it (and no authorised tool to perform the non-existent test).
4) Since there is no test, there is no problem.

5) They do not recognize my un-authorised results that I obtained by performing an un-authorised test with an un-authorised tool.
6) There is no problem, go ride the cycle.

I ask Nathan if he knows what the manufacturing tolerance is for this front to rear sprocket alignment. I beg him to find it out.
* He does not know what the manufacturing tolerance is for the front to rear sprocket alignment.
* He refuses to find out what that tolerance spec. might be.
* It's not a published tolerance number.

We disconnect.


I call Mike at Performance Cycle.

I relate the conversation with Nathan.

I tell Mike that I believe the cycle is not fit to ride as it is, that I believe it has a real safety issue. It's my leg that gets torn off if that chain comes off the sprocket at speed...

I then ask Mike to perform these measurement, on my request:
* Remove the sprocket covers, and using a straight edge, measure the front to rear sprocket mis-alignment.
* Examine for any blatently obvious manufacturing defect: a sprocket mounted backwards, a missing shim, just have a look...

He agrees to do this.


...and that's the latest in the saga.

Nathan told me that , in the 15 years he's been with Kaw, this is the first such incident of this complaint he's ever heard of. Lucky Me...



2012 Blue ZX-14R, Cox rad guard, Skene Design P3 Lighting, Knight Design 1" lowering pegs, Grip Puppies, BrakeAway, Cortech Sport tailbag, GSG MotoTech Frame sliders, Stebel Compact horn.

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KoflaOlivieri



Location:

Philadelphia, PA

Joined: 02/17/12

Posts: 1805

RE: Chain center on rear sprocket?
09/15/12 7:29 PM

I then ask Mike to perform these measurement, on my request:
* Remove the sprocket covers, and using a straight edge, measure the front to rear sprocket mis-alignment.
* Examine for any blatently obvious manufacturing defect: a sprocket mounted backwards, a missing shim, just have a look...

He agrees to do this.

After all this time still no one has removed the sprocket cover to see if the sprocket was mounted backwards? Unbelievable.

Kofla

NINJA ZX-14 MotoVlog

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Danno


Danno's Gravatar

Location:

Southwestern Illinois

Joined: 12/18/11

Posts: 2142

RE: Chain center on rear sprocket?
09/15/12 7:30 PM

If you were to shim either the front or rear sprocket out 1/4" which would it be? I would consider doing this (for photographic purposes only) and also take some pictures of the way it looks now, with the wheels aligned.


* Last updated by: Danno on 9/15/2012 @ 7:31 PM *



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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mebgardner


mebgardner's Gravatar

Location: Tucson, AZ

Joined: 05/08/12

Posts: 738

RE: Chain center on rear sprocket?
09/21/12 12:37 PM

Took my cycle back from the dealer service yesterday.

Bottom line:

No cost to me, but they did not discover the cause either.

The manager told me he put his best mechanic on the job, and he looked at it himself too. Nada...

They could not do the "straight edge check to the front sprocket, not enough room around it. They looked at everything else they could think of.

They can see the mis-alignment on my cycle using the chain alignment tool they borrowed from me, and they tested three other cycles in the service bay with it. One had no mis-alignment, one had mis to the left about same amount as mine, and one had mis to the right about the same amount as mine (1/2 bar thickness: ~ 1.5 mm over 180 mm length).

So, they declared "nothing wrong, it's safe to ride".

So, I'm gonna chalk this up to a buying/ learning experience, and go ride it now.



2012 Blue ZX-14R, Cox rad guard, Skene Design P3 Lighting, Knight Design 1" lowering pegs, Grip Puppies, BrakeAway, Cortech Sport tailbag, GSG MotoTech Frame sliders, Stebel Compact horn.

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