Yes I believe you can return it to stock if the need were to arise. Chances are extremely slim if there is warranty work to be done that they would peek at your ecu. Eventually that may change as flashing is becoming more popular. Aftermarket exhaust alone is grounds enough for them to deny warranty work.

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Hey Jtemple!
-Yes, no need for a PC or a tune, your bike will perform to its fullest potential. And yes, you will still need to block the pair valve. This helps the bike maintain a better a/f balance as the pair valve is blocked and not robbing intake air via that tract tube on the Left!
-You will benefit the most from the flash in concert with an exhaust upgrade. Slip-ons or a full system.
-Yes your warranty SHOULD still be good with the flash. Your bike will simply be running correct with no add-ons and the actual numbers in the ecu will be slightly different. No real way to point a finger and create an issue over a bank of numbers. If KHI has a tech read ur ecu, they might pick it out, but it IS NOT A powercomander type add-on they can point to and say 'hey!'.
-Yes it can be flashed back to stock later (you won't want to!:))
-No you won't be able to just 'do it yourself' with a cable and a laptop. You could, but the cost of the actual 'doin it' is proportionally greater and you will not have invested the dyno time yet. :)

Nasty has it!

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/21/2013 @ 4:21 PM *

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Let's say I buy a Brock's exhaust. I just send my ecu to cblast?

Not really. Think of your bike as a snowflake. We swap the same bikes, we will come back with a different feeling to it, different response. So for elevation purposes, of course you are stuck with less than ideal air. Will that map work of C's? Up to a point, yes.

No PCV required to unleash hell?

Correct. Up to a point. We are in need of an eccel map. I can't talk about thatrick or me dick begins to get hard. End of conversation.

What about the PAIR block off?

It's a hotrod move. You want to eliminate it, go for it. It closes down exhaust ports you run it like the other port that does not us it, meaning, builds up carbon deposits. This hotrod move moves more air for a cleaner intake chamber. Don't get me started about zx14racer calling some of you kiddy sissy crab'inn, grab'inn the PAIR so the pop is only for the 4th of July.

Does that still need doing?

If you talked to zx14racer, you can do whatever you want. You see me raise a red flag to any mods here? Shit, I was more radical when what's his handle said if it was OK to run with header alone? You see any damage done? PAIR it is, go for it.

What if I need a warranty repair?

There is no call for warranty repair you leave the bike alone within that claim time. After warranty you are on your own. Call the ball. Fuck with it now and raise an issue, I'll be the one on your ass for NOLTT'ing, let alone how mother tea takes it. The joke is on you make the move you NEED! YOU HAVE TOO! I CAN"T WAIT... Or simply wait. You shoulda seen my bike first day [you think] I need a warranty claim? Think a dealer would touch it? Mod means you reach around before warranty is up. You play the odds more or less.

Is the flash something they could detect?

No. If they went to memory, you removed a sensor with key on? So watt? It has nothing to do with a flash. If they rode it, they'd think one more fast 14 if they got on it. Bike is a preset. Over duty-cycle the injector, you'll overheat the injector so you are stuck within this preset anyway with the parts you have.

Although it surely isn't as easy as finding a PCV plugged into the harness.

Most of this stuff is plug and play. If a wire is pulled caused by you pulling wires, yes, slam mother tea for her integrity. War rant tea it. My '08's front wheel dust seal was torn. My dust seal neck cover rubber was torn on 'line assembly.' Think I'd cry for a claim on those two [still] under warranty? Both were service related, meaning, meeting my service intervals so my claims are backed up with every item needing attention in the owner's manual. Finding that tear when it came time for said neck bearing packing and inspection gave me ha hurtoe feelings. That was a sloppy built bike, momma san.

I just want something streetable and reliable that is properly fueled for the exhaust I have.

If someone ran straight headers without a glitch short of a few points lost in the hearing dept., I don't see why you need to do anything?

Honestly the rev limiter bump and speed limit removal doesn't interest me much. I'm 100% stock right now. Is there much to gain with a flash now, or should I just wait until I get an exhaust?

The bike is hosed down closed by exhaust and fueling. How much more do you want? There is potential no matter what you do. It all depends on how many times you want to reach around. And once that happens, just do yourself a favor... Stop counting out the "Pony Papers."

Is it possible to flash it back to OEM if there's a problem? Is this something I can do myself with a proper cable and a computer? Just wondering what my best options are is all.

Yes, you can always flash it back, do it yourself [if I can do it so can you], because I don't have a clue starting out with this mapping business. All I know is I cut a check and the rest is jumping in the same pool with all the rest of the dangling dicks.

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To me [on paper] both bikes peak close to the top, but you should sense C's curve a lot stronger and smoother. The red line of Romes is more in the 13 AFR's, C is more in the lean is mean HA-HA my dick is getting hard line.

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You can see the conditions were quite different between the two flash runs...almost everything else is the same...a/f....max HP...almost the same.I did replace the Air Filter last night...the Romans run had a 'not very clean' air filter.

I wonder how my run would Look if I had the New Filter Along with the Cooler Air And Same Lower Humidity ? You Can be sure that 4hp gap would close.

To me [on paper] both bikes peak close to the top, but you should sense C's curve a lot stronger and smoother. The red line of Romes is more in the 13 AFR's, C is more in the lean is mean HA-HA my dick is getting hard line.

Hub the AFR lines caught my attention too 13.5 versus 14. What happens when Ram Air comes into the mix if your running a 14 AFR on the Dyno ? IMO to lean with very little room for error. We have no way of knowing where the customer may be riding this bike. Some margin of motor safety must be considered. When you guys build your flash would you build 14 AFR at wide open throttle into your table, Even if it gave you more power ????? What if Green lived at sea level and not at 3000 feet???? AFR line look much diff again. Scary different.

Guys if I can make my flash better I would gladly do it, But I'm Never going to risk having any of you call me and say you ran lean and it cost you a motor. If I ever hurt any of your bikes I would Never Flash Another one. That being said my flash may always be a bit lower in the Dyno wars but I can promise you this, You Will Be Able To Ride To All Of Them. There is some lines I won't cross.

Green I hope I didn't let you down bud. Maybe have a Tuner in your area map the PCV for your bike at your elevation to squeeeze out every last bit of safe hp.

I know this will make some of you mad but that is not my intention. More of pointing out I have Never Seen a 14 AFR at wide open throttle. Cost can be high. Cheers

The ecu has an equation in place to accomodate for ram air. So what happens is, it takes that into account and adds fuel so as not to create a lean condition. This is basic stuff. Not some A/F trick that should scare people. Simple stuff. I live at sea level, runnin same flash. A/F is excellent. I say again. Exact same flash. Anyone needs confirmation of that fact, Nels can be reached at 2wheeldynoworks@gmail.com / 425-269-5332

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/20/2013 @ 10:32 PM *

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Well...I don't care honestly about the Dyno numbers....I KNOW my bike feels much stronger and better with the flashes.If she had actually DROPPED in these figures(like it shows)from stock...it wouldn't be running like it is...so I know the dyno wasn't set correctly.Hell...on Romes flash...on the 6th...the guy made three runs...and that was it.NOTHING like what Hub was saying 'prepping' the motor for testing.3 runs.ONLY.She's doing what Romes and C said she'd do after the flash...haul azz and take names;)LOL!!!

Let me say here...I looked at the sheets again...nowhere does it show 'STD' not even with the smoothing...all SAE numbers...ALL of em.If that means anything.I thought one had STD at the top...nope....all SAE.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/20/2013 @ 10:18 PM *

Hey, I'm just glad you are happy Grn! That is what counts.

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Sa'll good C...I'm happy....yes...I am.She' runs fine;)

Green did you ever do a full stock dyno run?

Romes man, Green is running the exact same flash down to the last # along with the same basic setup, slips and stock everything. If what you are suggesting were to be true then would not we see an extremely rich situation? Stoichiometric ratio of 14.7 will theoretically give you the best of both power and economy. Basically with 14 he's getting great power and streetability! I don't believe that afr for either of them two flashes on greens graph.

* Last updated by: nasty on 9/20/2013 @ 10:36 PM *

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"Green did you ever do a full stock dyno run?"...no...but I should have.I'd have to buy a new ECU...aint gonna do that.Already bought a second ECU.That's it.

Let it be known right here...right now...NOBODY decieved anyone with these flashes.They are performing just as promised.I'd do it again in a heartbeat....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/20/2013 @ 10:37 PM *

Stoichiometric ratio of 14.7 will theoretically give you the best of both power and economy. Basically with 14 he's getting great power and streetability!

9.0:1 CK SMOKE (NO POWER)

11.5:1 RICH BEST TORQUE @ WOT

12.2:1 SAFE BEST POWER @ WOT

13.3:1 LEAN BEST TORQUE @ WOT

14.6:1 STOCHIMETRIC AFR ( CHEMICALLY CORRECT )

15.5:1 LEAN CRUISE

16.5:1 BEST FUEL ECONOMY (EXCEPT FOR HONDA MOTOR COMPANY)

18.0:1 CARBURETED LEAN LIMIT (EXCEPT FOR HONDA MOTOR COMPANY)

22.0:1 EFI LEAN LIMIT

I don't believe that afr for either of them two flashes on greens graph.

I'm sure all dyno's will off some when compared to each other. But green has gone to the same Dyno which gives us a good baseline. If one assumes the flash being tested is truly a 13.1 AFR then the Earlier flash of mine is running Rich 12.5 in turbo land. We were playing on the Dyno today doing flash compares with Beast's 14R.(Wolf couldn't make it this time). My AFR's were inline with greens chart. While I was there I had a chance to run that slugger map from Brock. I most deff did not make 227 horsepower lol but it was a fun day just the same. 67% humidity Not good and Dyno operator did try and talk us out of it,,wanting better conditions but we went for it anyway. Point being what works for one does not always work for all.

I still believe flash is Awesome place to start but each bike may enjoy some personal fine tuning to make perfect for him or her. PCV or whatever method you choose.

Hub the AFR lines caught my attention too 13.5 versus 14. What happens when Ram Air comes into the mix if your running a 14 AFR on the Dyno?

I thought I had a pretty sensitive vacuum meter hooked up where the PAIR hole is in the frame. Under low pressure [leaving a light] say, that needle would pounce and flutter under vacuum. Once I ran it up in speed, that needle kept a steady peg, didn't move the harder I opened it up. So linear wise? No movement. Low take off? Big movements. So much for ram compensation.

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Speed density fuel injection systems use the speed of the engine, a measurement of manifold vacuum, and the density of the air to calculate engine air flow. This is accomplished by using a manifold absolute pressure sensor and a predetermined table of how efficient an engine is at flowing air in all conditions. ie ram air is automatically accounted for.

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This is a learning ecu it has a preset target it wants to hit and it will do just about anything to hit those numbers. Tune the ecu for power and rest will fall into place.

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"This is a learning ecu"...tell ya this...if she starts 'learning' to restrict my fun here...she's GONE babyLOL!!!!

Don't worry, grn. The bike is open loop. When you buy a PCV, this is when it takes your race map, learns how to run in stoic via a learning process to run down to ideal economy/performance within this closed loop system. Under load, the 02 cannot run the bike back down to lambda, being the data is coming in too fast in 1000's of rpms. The 02 is for light loads like cruise/idle/start up modes. Heavy loads, we are back to load based maps or your race map made.

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Speed density fuel injection systems use the speed of the engine, a measurement of manifold vacuum, and the density of the air to calculate engine air flow. This is accomplished by using a manifold absolute pressure sensor and a predetermined table of how efficient an engine is at flowing air in all conditions. ie ram air is automatically accounted for.

This is a learning ecu it has a preset target it wants to hit and it will do just about anything to hit those numbers. Tune the ecu for power and rest will fall into place.

Nasty has it.

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/21/2013 @ 7:36 AM *

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This is accomplished by using a manifold absolute pressure sensor and a predetermined table of how efficient an engine is at flowing air in all conditions. ie ram air is automatically accounted for.

You might have looked that up and read it on a car site? We do not have a MAF sensor. Ours is more in the ram chamber. Our manifold absolute pressure sensor is the IAP [intake air pressure] sensor.

When you watch the AFR meter you are watching how open loop works. When the system fails, you are watching how the system will try to mimic stoic/lambda by using 760mmHg as a calc number because the sensors failed. So it more runs like an 02 but rich/safe.

So 16.5 AFR is if you hooked the GPS up with a tre, you code the part. The part goes limp mode, you wink-wink are in a safe/rich/twitchy ign/fuel mode.

No codes, you run the lean lift setting, by watching the AFR hit down past 18 AFR, no racy twitch, but more linear is the average [stock] ride.

Notice the vacuum load on lift and at WOT. That is our 'load based' ignition system we use. We do not run off of a stoic based setting, i.e., needing an 02? No, not needed. Is K-skid built around load base? Yes, big time! Flies locked open, I still hear/feel the other 2 interventions take over.

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You might have looked that up and read it on a car site? We do not have a MAF sensor. Ours is more in the ram chamber. Our manifold absolute pressure sensor is the IAP [intake air pressure] sensor.

When the manifold absolute pressure sensor is used with the remaining incoming data from the other sensors we get a much more precise and accerate reading of what is getting pumped into to cylinders than what a traditional MAF is capible of.

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You might have looked that up and read it on a car site? We do not have a MAF sensor. Ours is more in the ram chamber. Our manifold absolute pressure sensor is the IAP [intake air pressure] sensor.

Yes, The MAP sensor is key to what goes on in the Air Box. When we boost the hoses must be cut and a one way check valve gets installed inline to the map sensor, or Like hub puts it Limp mode enters timing gets pulled and bike stumbles after vacume turn to pressure. Safety. Dozens of tests proved exactly Limp.

When you watch the AFR meter you are watching how open loop works. When the system fails, you are watching how the system will try to mimic stoic/lambda by using 760mmHg as a calc number because the sensors failed. So it more runs like an 02 but rich/safe.

So much for ram compensation.

Hub I remember watching your video way back but I do not remember seeing a AFR meter preset to a given # on the Dyno, then showing no change with Ram Air. Spent allot of time data logging,,, 200mph air plays with AFR ? Are you saying No it does not ? After all these years still taking me to school.

Notice the vacuum load on lift and at WOT. That is our 'load based' ignition system we use. We do not run off of a stoic based setting, i.e., needing an 02? No, not needed. Is K-skid built around load base? Yes, big time! Flies locked open, I still hear/feel the other 2 interventions take over.

Yup!!!

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Hey folks!
Wolf did not make Dyno as he had to work! A Dyno chart is a snap shot of your bike when measured against certain conditions. The condition of the Dyno is a factor and the operator set up is a factor too! Romes could you post your chart?
Thanks!
I think Romes You are running a full system akra, and new light wheels? I am not sure but did you put a 45 tooth in the rear. Just want to know when taking in the details. Apples to apples. For instance I ran 205.9 with akra heads, yosh pipe, ecu flash, and PCV. It took Mitch 40 Dyno runs to build 206. I was running on 40% humidity on standard smooth!

Lets see the charts.

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Hey folks!
Wolf did not make Dyno as he had to work! A Dyno chart is a snap shot of your bike when measured against certain conditions. The condition of the Dyno is a factor and the operator set up is a factor too! Romes could you post your chart?
Thanks!
I think Romes You are running a full system akra, and new light wheels? I am not sure but did you put a 45 tooth in the rear. Just want to know when taking in the details. Apples to apples. For instance I ran 205.9 with akra heads, yosh pipe, ecu flash, and PCV. It took Mitch 40 Dyno runs to build 206. I was running on 40% humidity on standard smooth!
Lets see the charts.

No charts as it was a drive up and beg for a compare session. At first the guy wanting Nothing to do with us. So for a Friday afternoon we were lucky to get what we got. We do have video though working on it.