Oh yea I want the new Brock/Guhl flash for the new R but its gota wait a week or two. It and a PCV and a good tune with full exhaust has got to be a GOOD thing.

Working with a "3rd party" who also works with your competition sounds like a risky proposition to me unless its family... or a friend..
Reading between the lines here, it looks to me that your work with Don on how to fix the power limiter safety mode, fuel cut, and ignition timing was used to benefit your competition.... and made to look like they were the ones that figured it out? Do you have a Non Disclosure Agreement? Basically you are saying they took your flash and are now it's theirs...
I can guess you have more than $20,000 invested (bike, pipe, PCV, Programming, time, effort, etc).... I would be out of my mind for quite a bit less....

If you are worried about flashing and voiding warranty...keep your mouth shut when you take it to the dealer, they have no way of knowing if any flashing was done. Mum is the word. Common sense should prevail.

Working with a "3rd party" who also works with your competition sounds like a risky proposition to me unless its family... or a friend..
Reading between the lines here, it looks to me that your work with Don on how to fix the power limiter safety mode, fuel cut, and ignition timing was used to benefit your competition.... and made to look like they were the ones that figured it out? Do you have a Non Disclosure Agreement? Basically you are saying they took your flash and are now it's theirs...
I can guess you have more than $20,000 invested (bike, pipe, PCV, Programming, time, effort, etc).... I would be out of my mind for quite a bit less....

Don does not ride nor does he own a motorcycle...

If he wants to work on a ZX14, he needs to go to the bike.... much different than someone like me who buys the bike to do just that.

How much experience with any specific model can be gotten in just a few hours as compared to owning the bike or having it at your disposal indefinetly?
And also buy all the different popular pipes, air filters, fuel and ignition controllers, and test them so you know what works well and what does not.... this stuff costs a lot of money to do properly.

There is no doubt that he knows his way around a lot of stuff (not all stuff) inside the ECU... But knowing your way around software is not the same thing as knowing what to set your tuning parameters to.

This stuff can only be gotten through repeated testing in the real world as well as the dyno and spending time actually riding the motorcycle under all conditions (including the dangerous stuff).... this type of stuff takes many hundreds of hours and can not be just figured out in a few dyno sessions to get a good final result.... unless you steal it from someone who has already figured it out.

Ivan

silly flashes i'm glad i own a busa

Bikes go to Don Guhl in Pennsylvania. This is how the flash was developed for the Concours 14 (both the pre-2010 and the 2010+) because Fred Harmon of COG and several others took theirs to Don's shop and he put them on the dyno.

Guhl's flash is either what he is told to do (like Iven's product) or what he as developed on his dyno with a live bike.

Example, in late August I will ride to Guhl (he is like 1:30 away) and he will dyno mine, then flash based on that. Even keeping the potato launcher muffler, the flash will make the bike more fun to ride.

If I later put an aftermarket exhaust on, he will re-do it at reduced cost.

Don has been doing this as long as there have been ECUs. I give props to Ivan for his tuning back in the dark ages before complex ECUs. But today, its all about the size of the throttlebodies, the cams, the port and valve sizes, and the ECU.

Since most of us aren't going to change out throttlebodies, or cams, or have a head job done to increase port and valve sizes, we are left with aftermarket exhausts and ECU A/F mixture (and Ignition) changes. The ECU contains base A/F and Ignition tables, plus Secondary Throttle (butterflies) table, and other data. The piggy changes the A/F table values by sending values to the throttles which are different than what the ECU would send alone. Add an ignition module and you can do the same thing, if you know what you are doing.

So basically, everything can be done with a re-flash, that can be done with a piggy, without having the piggy. But if you change the exhaust or something major, your ECU will not be optimized for it, and would have to be reflashed again after dyno runs.

Don does not ride nor does he own a motorcycle...

If he wants to work on a ZX14, he needs to go to the bike.... much different than someone like me who buys the bike to do just that.

How much experience with any specific model can be gotten in just a few hours as compared to owning the bike or having it at your disposal indefinetly?
And also buy all the different popular pipes, air filters, fuel and ignition controllers, and test them so you know what works well and what does not.... this stuff costs a lot of money to do properly.

There is no doubt that he knows his way around a lot of stuff (not all stuff) inside the ECU... But knowing your way around software is not the same thing as knowing what to set your tuning parameters to.

This stuff can only be gotten through repeated testing in the real world as well as the dyno and spending time actually riding the motorcycle under all conditions (including the dangerous stuff).... this type of stuff takes many hundreds of hours and can not be just figured out in a few dyno sessions to get a good final result.... unless you steal it from someone who has already figured it out.

Ivan
................................................................................................................
Well Ivan you are wrong .. Brock worked with Don for many many hours on Brocks dyno to get good base lines , that same bike was using at the drag strip to set record numbers .. It has also spent many hours on the street testing the ECU and tune .. Can i prove that ? Hell yes i can ..I tested the first flash and Brocks tune so i know what works .. 8.47 on a stock motored ZX14R on pump gas with Dons / Brocks flash ...Nobody has gone faster and that includes you ! You want to prove your flash is and tune is better get to the drag strip and prove it, otherwise it all just talk ..

Well Ivan you are wrong .. Brock worked with Don for many many hours on Brocks dyno to get good base lines , that same bike was using at the drag strip to set record numbers .. It has also spent many hours on the street testing the ECU and tune .. Can i prove that ? Hell yes i can ..I tested the first flash and Brocks tune so i know what works .. 8.47 on a stock motored ZX14R on pump gas with Dons / Brocks flash ...Nobody has gone faster and that includes you ! You want to prove your flash is and tune is better get to the drag strip and prove it, otherwise it all just talk ..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who had all the new features for almost 2 months first?

Who did all the R&D and gave Don the necessary info for the new flash? (my flash)

The new flash wouldn't exist if it wasn't for me.... (they were stuck)
Don't even try to defend it... it'll only make you look more stupid than you already look.

I could care less about your dragstrip... it means nothing.

* Last updated by: Ivan on 8/8/2012 @ 11:22 AM *

Ivan " I could care less about your dragstrip... it means nothing."

LOL .. That is some funny shit right there ...Brocks phone will be ringing off the hook after that statement ..

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 8/8/2012 @ 11:31 AM *

I aint ever going to drag mine, drag performance means nothing to me, driveability, useability.
Also I think its not a flash alone that wins a drag, many variables

motero Brock flash and tune comes with driveability, useability and track proven ET and MPH .. You can have your cake and eat it too .. Buy what ever flash and tune you want and be happy ..

I am currently running Ivan's flash and love it.... My mileage has gone over 40+ (from 33-34ish), no more KTRC nag, runs quite a bit cooler, no more safety mode power limiter, less buzz in the bars and unbelievably streetable. Once I installed my Brock's pipe my bike felt much faster and racy but it reminded me of my old ZX9, fast as hell but never "super smooth". Ivan's ECU made my 14R "Super smooth and unbelievably responsive".

Fucked up.

I wish I had 1% of the knowledge that Ivan, Brock, & Guhl have when it comes to motorcycles. It's great to have a lot of attention with the new Kawasaki, I finally feel like the big Ninja is getting the attention it deserves.

I'm not sure what direction I'm taking with this 14, so I really am undecided on the ECU. I will most likely stick to what I know and just pull the flies, Brock it, and a Brock map....maybe a tad lower gearing.

Oh, yeah, and some of Smokins' skills.

Like you stole Dale Walkers ideas on the ZRX.
Craig

My stuff for the ZRX was available for eons before he did anything for it...

I have never taken intellectual property from anyone..... ever.
All my products came 100% from me.

I don't live my life shady and I have morals.

Ivan

Ivan's ECU made my 14R "Super smooth and unbelievably responsive

This is what I'm looking for out of my 14.

I guess Ivan feels that the 300+ dyno pulls Brock made on slugger and the drag strip testing and all on videos of the testing is nothing .Or the hours Don spent with Brock coming up with a flash that would work best with his mapping ....Not even what i did testing the maps and different flashes mean nothing to Ivan ..I don't care what came first , the Chicken or the Egg .. All i want is the fastest flash and tune ..Ivan is not even willing to test his flash and tune Vs Brocks flash and tune .. Because to Ivan drag racing proves nothing ..I offered my free time to do it but that fell on deaf ears ..

I'm happy that Seno is happy with Ivan flash and mapping .. If Seno is happy that is all that counts ..

Buy whatever flash and tune makes you happy :) For most guys a flash is not even needed , just a good pipe and Map will be all they ever need ..The bike has more than enough power for 70% of the guys out there ..The other 30% want more and we the 30% guys know where to get it ..

I have no more to add , buy what floats your boat and go riding and be happy ..

The other 30% want more and we the 30% guys know where to get it ..

I guess Ivan feels that the 300+ dyno pulls Brock made on slugger and the drag strip testing and all on videos of the testing is nothing .Or the hours Don spent with Brock coming up with a flash that would work best with his mapping ....

I had the original flash and sold it to several of my customers.... it was nothing more than a raised rev-limit and a few more degrees of advance at high rpm, and opened the flies a little sooner. The bike still ran hot, vibrated a lot more, drank fuel and still have it's safety mode kick in if you whacked the throttle in the lower 3 gears. It was a farting, backfiring, jerky and abrupt machine that wasn't fun to ride as a streetbike.... especially in the corners. I fixed all of it

Not even what i did testing the maps and different flashes mean nothing to Ivan ..I don't care what came first , the Chicken or the Egg .. of course you don't....you only support your "daddy" even if he has no morals.

All i want is the fastest flash and tune ..Ivan is not even willing to test his flash and tune Vs Brocks flash and tune .. Because to Ivan drag racing proves nothing ..I offered my free time to do it but that fell on deaf ears ..

I find you extremely biased, and why would I give you something that wouldn't be tested properly anyway?
If you did 2nd through 6th gear roll on testing without a standing start against a bike that was exactly the same except for the ECU with an equal weight rider (like I do), I might have considered letting you try it out... rider skill needs to be completely removed when evaluating an engine's performance. This is why the dragstrip means nothing to me. (way too many variables) Gearing, rider weight, skill, traction... the list goes on and on.

I'm happy that Seno is happy with Ivan flash and mapping .. If Seno is happy that is all that counts ..

There are quite a few others that are happy too.... and they like doing business with straight up honest people.

Buy whatever flash and tune makes you happy :) For most guys a flash is not even needed , just a good pipe and Map will be all they ever need ..The bike has more than enough power for 70% of the guys out there ..The other 30% want more and we the 30% guys know where to get it ..

You can only speak for yourself. People should go to the person who did the actual tuning work.


I have no more to add , buy what floats your boat and go riding and be happy ..

Does this mean that you won't post any more in this thread?

I hope you think of me every time you ride your bike since it has my tune in it....

And BTW, if you wanted the fastest bike, you bought the wrong pipe....
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx142.htm

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 8/9/2012 @ 6:21 AM *

Ivan don't take it to seriously. Lee's head is so far up brocks ass it is amazing. What lee doesn't get is drag racers are far and few between. Normal street riders are the dominant sales of these bikes not them. Pay him no mind he backs brock blindly to the end. I love brocks pipes but with the 14 and his map i still cant get it right. Its still not smooth on the street.

Ivan ,slow down ,Lee just said for the ZRX you were the best,but he seems to have better results with Brock on the 14r. Forget about drag racing rider variances,offer to let him test and prove.As far as your testing of the Brock/Hindle to Akro goes an unbiased shoot-out would be necessary.I have known Lang Hindle for 40 years and am biased,but my respect for him was earned,and Lang was a road racer not a drag racer

My bike runs fine.

Grn were both about the same age,we should have a race,each down two large coffee's,1/4 mile to an outhouse at the end of the strip,winner pee's first

My Brocks CT Duals and Street Map are as smooth as a babys ass with power everywhere. Stock ECU.