Page 2 suckas!

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 2/3/2015 @ 4:43 AM *

The saying " don't start no shit,won't be no shit" definitely applies here, and Hub you are guilty.

and Hub you are guilty.

"Someone said I was going soft with some of the members"...this is unacceptable.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/3/2015 @ 7:43 AM *

Michael Andretti CART Indycar 01:06.050 3/87 136 mph

From willow springs race track, and who still owns the track record. Look how old those tires are and no one has beat that time since 1987.

Nigel Mansell FISA F/1 01:06.300 2/82 136 mph

And here is Nigel back in 1982 and those configured tires and that's 5 years of tire/engine development between the two times.

What you said, Boss, was that the tires are a lot better being what, radial? And this gap is about 33 years old and did the tires improve with the engines too? So where is the faster time if it's taking 33 years (yet to beat it).

This means any tire can be overpowered and break loose from traction. So from my perspective, you have yet to find that breakaway with that new radial.

If they didn't, you'd be just as fast on good technology as you were back in your day.

I'm trying to bring you down to a reality check and thinking that you found the limit? I don't think so. Only that lap time knows for sure.

OK, lets put the flaming aside and look at the facts. First, let me acknowledge that the 14 is not a MotoGP bike but I think the benefits of rider aids on the 14 are beneficial just as they are on MotoGP bikes. There have been several riders, including Colin Edwards who have resisted TC because he/they feel they can do a better job themselves throughout a full lap. Those riders don't typically deny the benefit in certain corners but prefer not to have the TC because the limit is there all the time (at least now that GPS mapping has been banned). The trick for the riders and factories is finding how much is enough. The factories are convinced that 1) the bikes are quicker with TC and 2) the TC protects the huge investment they have in top riders. Since the introduction of TC high-sides in MotoGP are virtually non-existent.

I'm pretty sure there isn't anyone here who is a better rider the Edwards, let alone the MotoGP aliens. So, if you think you can ride the 14 at it's limits (not yours) and put in a quicker lap time with the TC off rather than in Mode 1 you are living in fairy tail land. It may be more fun with it off, but it ain't going to be quicker.

Straight line acceleration has been proven to be much slower in ANY TC mode. Sources: 10 time drag racing world champion. Rickey Gadson.

I was specifically referring to road courses and street riding that involves corners.

Break in
I kept it in L most of the time. Turned on F around 700-900 but still minded recommended rpm limits for the most part.

My thoughts on riding aids in general
If you recall my "What level of sportibke should a new rider start with?" video, the principles about personality traits are part of what is applicable to riders and riding aids. Mental and physical attributes are as unique to each person as a fingerprint.

For the majority of riders driver aids are a benefit. It's probably not until the top few percent of riders out there that driver aids will really become a limitation.

My understanding for acceleration and the average 14 rider, F1 is the setting to use particularly with basically stock bikes (no wheelbase or lowering mods etc). This driving aid will let the average rider run the 1/4 mile 90+% as fast as the bike will go. When it comes to driver aids, the most talented and skilled riders will find them a limitation.

Generally people compare people based on their experience and abilities. What do I mean by this? I mean that if some person has some gift or skill, they may not really be aware that they are gifted in that way unless they've had some opportunity to use that gift or skill in some way that differentiated him from others. Think of it like this, some kid has a gift for multiplying numbers. It's not until 15 years later that this gift is realized after talking to someone about it and they tell him "what do you mean...I can't just multiply 2 4-digit numbers?!". For the kid, for all those years, he just thought everyone could multiply big numbers in their head like him.

For me...it's FOFF or nothing!
I'm not making some case for myself that I'm some elite rider. I'm not that. In many ways, I think I could've been though. Shoulda-coulda-woulda. My personal attributes are great balance, hand-eye coordination, mental discipline, and great butt-feel. In some ways I have my own built in TRC...call it BUTTRC? I prefer the unfettered ability to manage the state of the motorcycle. As I've said before here, I don't tend to panic. I think this is part of the main reason I prefer to have the most control possible.

Frankly I"m looking forward to Cflash because that I understand there's still some nanny mode even in KTRC 0.

My balls itch....what's happening here on this thread? Oh hey Dick! Eat a Vic! Jk Lmfao

* Last updated by: nasty on 2/3/2015 @ 8:05 PM *

So, if you think you can ride the 14 at it's limits (not yours) and put in a quicker lap time with the TC off rather than in Mode 1 you are living in fairy tail land.

I coulda had a V8.

"I coulda had a V8."...maybe...but that Boss Hog won't EVER corner like yer Ninja...you still want a V8?

"My balls itch....what's happening here on this thread?"...same as the others...the smart guys against the dumb guys...no worries.I'm in total control of my own mental prowess...I told you that,right?

"Break in
I kept it in L most of the time."...definitely wouldn't want my motor to be able to breath correctly...assures me I'll be riding a bike that's permanently weaker than it's bretheren. I can dig this...since I only desire to go 2 mph over the posted limit anyway...I'm too scared to pin the throttle...I might fall down and scrape my pinky.No sense in purposely pushing my luck...since luck is really all I believe in anyhoo.That and my superior intellect.I can say,and mean it wholeheartedly...that I'm NOT an elite rider...cause I know that the skills it takes to pilot a bike like this at anything above 75 mph will never be discovered by me...it's too scarey to even think about.Safer to just sit back and present my thesis's about everyone else here than do some real world experimenting.Never heard of anyone breaking a finger typing on a keyboard...I like this idea.I ride constantly in secret fear that my bike will overpower me because I really don't know what she'll do...I'm not about to push her,and find out for myself..everything bad that happens to me is always something I had no say in..I can't possibly admit to myself that I'm responsible for my outcomes.That idea can't be allowed into my thoughts...the possibility that I could be wrong.That'd mean I'm actually no better than anyone else...not okay with me...I MUST be right in everything.My world depends on this.This is why I bought this bike in the first place...to appear in control...control over this seething beast that's ready to turn on me at any time.If I keep it at the speed limit...I give the appearance of control to those around me.Which is what I'm really after...the self created image of myself to my peers.When anyone asks..."why did you buy this?"...I'm at a loss for words....I can't tell them the truth...it'd kill me.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 12:09 AM *

I coulda had an H2 and I'm jealous of you! Did you see that bike leave that 14? Don't get me wrong, I was moving in some tight freeway traffic with that bike and it works well darting away, but my balls itch for that kind of acceleration.

LOL!!!Yes,I saw it leave that 14.I honestly thought the 14 didn't have the rider it deserved;)Seriously.Get Lee on board,or Ricky...'it's Showtime'...;)Can't believe that 14 wasn't pullin harder than that...the fix is in...that 14 got gipped.

I coulda had an H2 and I'm jealous of you! Did you see that bike leave that 14? Don't get me wrong, I was moving in some tight freeway traffic with that bike and it works well darting away, but my balls itch for that kind of acceleration.

LOL hub what would you do with an H2? First step, rip all the bodywork off. Second, cut (with a jigsaw) a bunch of holes in the engine covers and glue some acrylic bits on them. 3rd, glue a 1970's roundy headlight onto the thing!

Remember...it's function over form.

LOL!!!Yes,I saw it leave that 14.I honestly thought the 14 didn't have the rider it deserved;)Seriously.Get Lee on board,or Ricky...'it's Showtime'...;)Can't believe that 14 wasn't pullin harder than that...the fix is in...that 14 got gipped.

Never thought a wad of bubblegum with a supercharger stuck to it could move so fast!?

I don't ride in KTC, I prefer F-OFF. That said, some folks say they launch better in F1, and some folks use the TC modes in slippery road conditions. Here is the main question for me, Kawi put TC there for what application? Touring? Track? Hmmmmmmm

You think Rosi and Marquez could still put down them same lap times without TC?

When anyone asks..."why did you buy this?"...I'm at a loss for words....I can't tell them the truth...it'd kill me.

That's a simple answer for me. To climb into the upper echelon of drag strip pilots. It's because of that goal that the KTRC is completely useless to me.

O and show me an H2 that will walk away from my 14R. I will wager any amount of money stock wheelbase to stock wheelbase. Hell you can put Rickey on it. His didn't even scratch 8s at stock wheelbase and it makes 100+ more horsepower than the standard H2.

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 2/4/2015 @ 8:44 AM *

Good to be positive and cranked about our bikes.

"It's because of that goal that the KTRC is completely useless to me"...agreed.Totally. But as you say...it does have some applications that aren't useful at the drag strip.

It's pretty easy to get in over one's head with this bike because of it's weight.It's still a lot of weight to be throwing around.And the motor isn't slowed down by it.Not really...on the street.All you need is the right amount of lean...and the right amount of throttle...this bike will get ya killed in reality if you're not paying attention.Ktrc isn't always a bad thing.Not for this bike anyway.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 9:38 AM *

I step in and offer my expertise when it applies. Unfortunately I don't have a twisty bike at the moment. I couldn't let the H2 statement fly either as it is totally bogus. The H2R would be a challenge to defeat at the track with someone like Ricky on board, but the H2 wouldn't stand a chance.

"but the H2 wouldn't stand a chance"...maybe not...I guess when it arrives,there'll be some brave souls willing to push it to it's very edge.Not sure how a guy would set up a race between these two...the sc would definitely give an advantage...but applying that to a 1441 zx...turbo maybe?it still wouldn't be a far fight would it?I don't know how you'd do it.Starting out with two very different CC levels.And you can't remove the SC from the H2...not yet anyway.Pumping up that 1441 with boost to 'match'(performance wise that is) an H2 engine...the advantage definitely would go to the ZX.Right?From all the reading I've done about the boosted zx's...they're putting out quite bit more HP than the H2 in stock form.So I don't know how you could run the two and have anything really be relevant for either one.If that makes sense?Running a stock ZX against the sc'd H2...it's not really 'fair'..It doesn't seem like it to me anyway.Maybe I'm way off on this...???The H2 SHOULD outrun a stock zx...and it does.But the power is actually very different.N/A vs SC.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 11:22 AM *

No Grn. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. The STOCK H2 is not able to compete against the STOCK 14R. Like I said earlier the hybrid H2 that Ricky created using the head,cams, and ECU off the H2R ran something like a 9.12 at stock wheelbase. I have been 8.92 at stock wheelbase and if I'm slower than 9.10 I'm pissed because I made some type of small mistake. Rickey's H2 hybrid makes around 100 more horsepower than the standard H2. See what I'm saying?

"The STOCK H2 is not able to compete against the STOCK 14R"...not sure what you mean here?.If you mean all out run to the finish...the H2 will beat it every time.If you mean because the H2 is SC'd and the zx isn't...then no..it wouldn't be a fair run.I don't know what you've heard or seen..but I've seen the video of the two running...the zx couldn't hang...that's all there was to it.

"but the H2 wouldn't stand a chance"...I posted a video somewhere either here or on another forum...it's a drag race against a stock 14R and the Stock H2....I have to say...the H2 cleanly walked away from the zx...at half track it was easily 10 bike lengths ahead.And wasn't even wound out.The zx was pulling for all it was worth.It clearly beat that zx.By a long shot.Now...I've no clue how good the riders were...or how the H2 was set using the factory electrics.

I wanted to say here...earlier...Looking at the numbers posted for HP and all....the stock H2 seems down for what it's got in it.You have to remember though...this bike isn't a replacement for the zx14R...

It doesn't have a niche...just like the 14...except the 14 was an instant hit with drag racers.And although the 14 is a great all rounder...it's real purpose was the drag strip.So in that sense...it filled a certain niche.On the street,it's not able to outperform a 1000 in fast twisting corners.That's not it's primary role...to outdo the 1000's.Otherwise,you'd see em competing at the tracks in a serious way.

Now the H2...what is it good for?It can't be raced on any circuit involving N/A bikes...so that's out.It can drag race...but it's sc limits it to what kind of field it can enter.LSR is most likely gonna be it's big spot.However...it will always be in a class by itself.IMO...Kawasaki did not build this bike to kill any other machine(though it will once the Flash guys get a hold of it and do some hard parts modding as well).This bike was built to show the world...and the other Big mfgs...just what Kawasaki CAN do...and WILL do up ahead.This bike is a one of a kind...and intended solely for this.This bike has a lot of potential that'll be tapped once it's out there.We KNOW that...but that's still not the reason Kawi built this bike.Ricky said it himself...this is just the BEGINNING.This bike.When they finally get the zx motor designed to accept a SC...look out.They're showing with THIS bike that they KNOW what they're doing...that's what it's about.It's not about HUGE HP's and TOP speeds.The H2R has that...and will have more ahead.And the H2 has the capability with the correct flashing to reach deep into the higher HP ranges.Most videos you see on the net...are with guys that were 'hired' by Kawasaki to ride the bike and show it off.NONE of those guys are pushing the bike all out.I'd like to see Rossi or one of those guys get on it.THAT would be sweet.

It's the FIRST of a new family of SC'd bikes that're gonna be coming from Kawasaki in the future...probably the near future.Again...wasn't built to be a zx killer.It will however destroy any 1000 out there....which is nice....and I have to say...it creamed the 14 in that video...stock for stock.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/4/2015 @ 7:14 PM *

Full and Off mostly. I love the thrill of unadulterated brute force in its purest form when I am out away from town and cop intervention

But on the twisties I do set thr Ktrc on setting two. I feel it can possibly help save a slide before it gets to the point of no return.

I will put the bike in low power and setting three when the fiancé rides with me.

Now, back to the bickering !!!