MRZX

Wait until you have at least 3000 miles (preferably more) before you switch to synthetic, it won't hurt
To switch earlier, but it won't hurt to keep dino in there for a while longer either,

I am no expert by any means, but there have been tests where SOME people say the rings don't seat properly
With synthetic if it is put in to soon, but I have known people that put in full synthetic at 100 miles
And had NO problems, also it depends how you break it in, if you cycle it up and down the rpm range and don't
Be too easy on it, I think you can put synthetic in a little earlier, if you break it in "easier"
Then I would wait.

Like i said I am no expert, and many on here have much better knowledge than me, but I have been doing
The break in semi by the book, but not to easy, and waiting a little longer to switch to synthetic,
And in over 25 years, never had a bike use excessive oil, smoke, etc .... From ring wear ...

Just my 2 cents ... Onward and upward, to infinity and beyond ! Oh wait what ? LOL !

* Last updated by: carabuser on 4/15/2014 @ 3:12 PM *

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Mav, how many runs do you get out of a new clutch pack?

Well I used to run a pack until it failed. Back in those days (last year) they would last 60-70 passes. I made around 10 passes a weekend last year, so we're looking at a pack every 2 months. I have since discovered that art of stack height adjustment (the only true way to adjust EXACTLY where the clutch lever engages). I like for my clutch to grab when I move the lever a single thousandth of a inch. This requires the lever to be adjusted to full close and the stack height to be at maximum OEM service limit. If you dig through the Kawi Parts Finder you will notice three different driven plates. 2.3mm, 2.6mm, and 2.9mm. Equipped from the factory are all 2.6mm driven plates. Once my fibers are shaved down a bit, I remove a 2.6 and slip in a 2.9. Now my clutch engagement is right back on the bar where I want it. I pull my clutch apart every single week and inspect the plates and fibers.

That's how you measure success bud. One detail at a time. Awesome Mav!

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carabuser thanks for your input that was the answer I was looking for, my zx has been run easy since I got it..
I will wait till 3000 miles before changing to synthetic
MRZX

* Last updated by: MRZX on 4/15/2014 @ 10:40 PM *

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Rook, is it the syn or do we drop the sump. Is it a shifting habit that killed the clutch in both bikes?

I'm voting for "shifting habit." There was never a drop of synthetic in the Vukcan. As far as drop the sump, I still have to finish my 500 "hope it just goes away" miles.

I can see the double shifting of a car/truck, but a bike's trans does not have huge gears but smaller and more of them. No fault to dad or you.

HAHA...that's quite a memory you have, Hub! You recall my stories of Dad teaching me to drive a truck! Yes, even recommended double clutching between upshifts which was really just a timing thing as far as I could tell. Same thing as holding the pedal down one time twice as long. Oddly enough, he also showed me clutchless shifting too but those old Ford twin axles didn't like that too much unless you hit it just right. If you remeber my track vids, you probably see I ride like I'm driving a truck!

If I stop adding throttle spin I stop a wearing down of plate, this causing added friction that does absolutely nothing but wears parts out faster. The 800 and 14 are 2 examples.

Man Hub, doe you have a crystal ball? You know just how I shift. Yes, I do detect the motor spin up faster when pulling the clutch and rolling back on the throttle...not always but pretty often.

Are we on the same page?

Almost, Hub. It's this close (my finger and thumb are very close together). ...but i know you are an OEM guy so goes the bias to OEM parts. I'm inclined to believe you on this one though. Have to check other opinions. ALready heard OEM is the way to go with clutches from one other person.

Hey Rook, I want one of them Evo shift stars.

Never heard a complaint about them, Everyone seems to like them. Grn said it felt like the throw in the shift lever was shorter. I don't know if he liked it enough to get one for the 14r. BG really liked it in his 14. He gave it high praises. If I replace the clutch, I might as well do the star too igf I can swing the doe. Another 200 smackers in the beast.

wait until till the bike has over 2500 miles on it,then do the full synthetic oil change because of any chance of a clutch issues..if anybody has a commit on what I have posted please do so..
Thanks MRZX

Wait till AT LEAST 2500, that's what I've always heard too, MR. In fact, if I were you, I'd set that synthetic aside until 5000. IDK if matters as much as most people say but to me, it's not worth the anxiety. I still have my busa on dino oil and I'm not in such a hurry to switch. Change the conventional more often and I think that is just about as good as using synthetic. Dino oil is pretty smooth when new, if you ask me.

Other side of the coin is that sythetic stays so clean, it may actually clear away tiny deposits that are actually sealing your engine. The theory is that if you wait too long your engine starts to seal up the tiny gaps with crud left behind from dino oil. The synthetic dissolves the crud and you have potential openings that oil can seep through. Once it finds a path under a gasket, its awful hard to stop it up. This, I believe. My head cover leak developed after I started using Rotella synthetic. That is all fixed up now. I still use Rotela Synthetic. Don't let it worry too much. Eventually, all engines will leak any kind of oil you put in it. If it's gonna leak, it will probably leak faster with synthetic. You gotta use some kind of oil so just take heed of all you hear and do what your heart tells ya. Just like break in procedures, do what you feel is best. No one knows for sure.

Get the brocks clutch mod in there - that'll stiffen things up..... soon you'll have forearms like popeye...

The springs? Yes I heard the high tension springs are a good piece. Kruz used them in his ZX-10 and he said they did not make the clutch too much harder. Oh yeah, but he already has forarms like Pop-eye! toot-toot

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/15/2014 @ 11:07 PM *

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Motul 300v full syn no slippage ever and slick shifting all the time with a 3000-5000 mile change, drained at 3000 and the oil looked almost I just poured it in. Rook you need a clutch pack with the Brocks mod and don't look back.

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Wait till AT LEAST 2500, that's what I've always heard too, MR. In fact, if I were you, I'd set that synthetic aside until 5000. IDK if matters as much as most people say but to me, it's not worth the anxiety. I still have my busa on dino oil and I'm not in such a hurry to switch. Change the conventional more often and I think that is just about as good as using synthetic. Dino oil is pretty smooth when new, if you ask me.

Other side of the coin is that sythetic stays so clean, it may actually clear away tiny deposits that are actually sealing your engine. The theory is that if you wait too long your engine starts to seal up the tiny gaps with crud left behind from dino oil. The synthetic dissolves the crud and you have potential openings that oil can seep through. Once it finds a path under a gasket, its awful hard to stop it up. This, I believe. My head cover leak developed after I started using Rotella synthetic. That is all fixed up now. I still use Rotela Synthetic. Don't let it worry too much. Eventually, all engines will leak any kind of oil you put in it. If it's gonna leak, it will probably leak faster with synthetic. You gotta use some kind of oil so just take heed of all you hear and do what your heart tells ya. Just like break in procedures, do what you feel is best. No one knows for sure.

Rook after reading your post I was in my dealer they don't stock semi synthetic or synthetic oil, they ordered semi synthetic for me the shop manager says they use nothing but 10w-40 in everything cycle kaw, suz, ktm, honda
I have a 03 hon vtx1800c that you can not use synthetic oil in over clutch I have always used hon 10w-40 it has almost 20000 miles never an issue
thanks for the input

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I'm going right to synthetic at 600 miles. Did it with my ZX10R without any problems at all. Look at it this way, dodge viper, porche, and corvettes come from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crank case. Once your engine is broke in, it is broke in..period.

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There are very low 7 second bikes that still use OEM clutches. I use OEM clutches. Hub and I are on the same page here. Aftermarket fibers are high dollar frisbees.

Rook you need a clutch pack with the Brocks mod and don't look back.

What exactly is the Brocks clutch mod? Just the heavy duty springs or is there more to it?

There are very low 7 second bikes that still use OEM clutches. I use OEM clutches. Hub and I are on the same page here. Aftermarket fibers are high dollar frisbees.

heh-heh, I haven't even started to ask about this and so far I have 3 experienced riders telling me to stay with OEM. Never like to replace OEM with OEM but looks like in this case, that might be what I will do.

Well, rode today. No slip in 6th gear hitting the throttle at 3000 rpm. 5th gear, waaaaaAAAAAAAHHHH. slips. It's hard to remember. I think I may have started to notice this before Winter storage. I know I did some wheelies though--that I wouldn't forget. I can't see how the bike would do a wheelie now. It would just make noise and not take off, LOL

So I'm fussing over every thing that might possibly be a symptom now. I noticed this morning that the bike did not want to roll backward out of the garage in first gear with the clutch pulled. The bike was quite cold out ther in the 30 degree air and was not ridden for a couple days. After my ride, it DID roll into the garage in first gear with clutch in just fine.

Is it normal for a bike to not roll in first gear when cold with clutch pulled? ..or does this sound like a symptom?

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Hot expands like water off the dipstick, while the cold difference is how it moves like syrup. Two different drag characteristics = Normal.

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thought so but like I said, now I am suspicious of every little thing. Even stuff that I might have noticed before but never took note of.

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Every one of you guys should be able to pull your clutches out, inspect them, replace the out of spec plates, and reassemble them in your sleep. The clutch is such a vital part of this machine. Power is nothing without control. I'm going to trim my fairing so that I don't have to remove it to pull my clutch cover. Painter's tape and a jigsaw should work no?

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 4/17/2014 @ 7:20 AM *

Maverick, think you could write up a how to next time you do yours? I would love to learn from someone with the experience you have.

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Maverick, think you could write up a how to next time you do yours? I would love to learn from someone with the experience you have.

definitely. I don't see a ZX-14 clutch replacement how to in a Google search. Brock has a 14r slipper clutch mod vid but that's about it. Looks like I will need to do the replacement very soon. I'll definitely take pics and post in order but far as writing in any detail, that would need to wait at least a few months. I'm still writing How Tos about stuff I did last year. lol

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Haha! Yea I haven't looked but im sure the service manual shows how its done, but I like better pictures and first hand knowledge with possible tips to make it easier.

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^^^ yeah, true , dat. the SM never has as much info as a how to.

I hear many people don't use the clutch or they they don't pull it all the way to the grip. I've been riding and shifting with just a half pull of the clutch lever. Seems to work just as good as pulling all the way. My guess is that my habit of pulling all the way to the grip might have worn out the springs. Even though I do have a tendency to overlap my throttle and clutch application as I hit the next gear, it is not that pronounced that there should be a lot of wear happening on the plates (I don't think).

When you use the clutch to shift do you pull ii all the way or just partway?

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IF I use the clutch to shift, I pull it completely to the grip. However I rarely use it during shifting because it will see extra wear over time no matter how good you are.

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Howz aboot a pic through your oil fill cap so we can see how far your pressure plate is sitting in yonder basket.

You were politely asked once already. Don't make us ask a third time.

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Right away, SIR!

hope this is what you guys need. I don't know what any of this stuff is yet.

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Your pack is shot. I see it.

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Excellent photography. Based on Hubz oil hole pic your clutch has served it's life. Chances are your springs are fine but your frictions and steels need replaced.

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The tangs in your shot show no signs of notching so your basket is serviceable. I'm inclined to postulate the hub is in similar regard.

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Buy a complete OEM clutch set and be done with it. I love the feel of heavy springs and mine are shimmed to be even stiffer. Do yourself a favor and get new springs, be it OEM or heavy aftermarket. You WILL feel a difference in the pressure required to disengage the clutch. Don't use the clutch for upshifts ever again. Maybe blend just a hair on the 1-2 shift if your trying to be as smooth as possible, but it absolutely is not required for any of the other cog swaps. I don't even use it on the low speed 1-2 shifts.

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 4/17/2014 @ 6:57 PM *

This is mine... no slip.

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