Okay...if taking those flies out will truly give er some more kick without sacrificing the Ktrc...I'm all in.You bet.May as well get all ya can from her

I'm still at odds though about the break-in with this new bird.The harder,quicker method seems reasonable...it truly does...considering they run em up at the factory and all.But I'm really leery about doing some long term damage doing it that way...I was thinkin maybe...the first 20 or so miles....runnin her up to the recommended rpm limits,takin her past a few times hard,then decelling down to seat the rings?Oil change...and redo it again,except a bit more aggressive.But do you think the factory already seated the rings?I've heard this...somewhere...that they run em all the way to just before redline,apparently seating the rings?IDK.This is a hard decision to make.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/1/2011 @ 7:41 PM *

gearing will be 17-51, Mcintosh AlumiPro swingarm on the way, airshifter, lowered, pcv when available, datalogger installed

wee

Hmmmm, so when does your bike get in ? lots of info needed over our winter lol Batter up,,,, You in ?

Put my name on first black one to show today... Dealer said not to expect a call until after the first of the year... Didn't ask for $$$, so I didn't give them any... Want bad, but gotta see how bad Christmas and roadtrip ding savings before making up my mind.

Hey Wee

Thanks For All the INFO I have been following your posts on Bikeland....You the MAN!

Keep Up the Good Work!!!

Snuffy

sho nuff Snuffy

wee

gearing will be 17-51,

OMG,,,, 51 really ,, you leaving line in second ? I can't imagine.

Mcintosh AlumiPro swingarm on the way,

Will First generation swing arm still fit ?

I'd guess they beefed up the pivot shaft some,that part of the frame right there...probably won't allow a previous swingarm in there for safety's sake?

Will First generation swing arm still fit ?

Yup.

Hey Wee

Thanks For All the INFO I have been following your posts on Bikeland....You the MAN!

Keep Up the Good Work!!!

2nd!

Thanks For All the INFO I have been following your posts on Bikeland....You the MAN!

3RD,,, Solid info

>>>'Wheelie' reports his 2012 14R has flies about 25% open at 7K rpm

How is he determining that?

I guess you could remove the tank..leave it connected,and run er up looking into the airbox?Would that work?Have to remove one of those sensors on there?Maybe a Dyno would show the change in something?IDK.Probably.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/1/2011 @ 8:28 PM *

How is he determining that?

Cause He The Man!

I ma wondering the same, how are you determining that the flies are only 25% open? Was I informed correctly: If you remove the flied you lose traction control?

Not true, your right hand will still be there! ;)

HERE'S the thread, guys.

Quotes from thread:

I was watching the secondaries while revving wot, they open but slow, the 14r is very powerful with them in so it's "not" necessary to remove them , most of you will be happy with the stock acceleration, I just want every bit I can get.

wee

took a ride with the secondaries removed, what a beast, spins the tire where it didn't the other day, I only did a couple of roll on's in first gear , I was able to go wide open in first, it's stupid fast, a/f was about 13.2 at wot, cruising it's about 15.5, no pc, I didn't redline first but was close.

I don't recommend removing the secondaries for everyone, but the guys wanting extra punch at low rpm do it.

wee

As far as losing TC... ... but the gen4 10r uses the secondaries as part of the TC system. If you remove them from that bike, you lose TC... I'm assuming the 14r is the same.

If that is true, can you imagine the power with flies out?
Rook stock wheel base may be to much but u can bet Track guys going to be extended and on this like a cougar on a cripple chicken lol. Man,,, Can't wait getting excited. You getting one ?

OH F**K ME, I want one bad now. It's reallynot in the cards that i can see. I have to live vicariously through the rest of you guys. dammit.

it spins on the street where it didn't before, I'm happy, now

Pipe dream... unless you have a Busa.

That is a really HOT looking bike. They really did it with those grills this time. The seat too. Very nice job in the asthetics dept, kawi!! Very wonderful improvement on an already beautiful bike. The grills are a bit exaggerated but that is perfect. that's exactly what this bike is all about!!! SWEEEEETness!

......you know, I still love my old baby. It's just getting started. Wish I woulda got in on this 14 scene in 06.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/2/2011 @ 11:49 AM *

"As far as losing TC... ... but the gen4 10r uses the secondaries as part of the TC system. If you remove them from that bike, you lose TC... I'm assuming the 14r is the same".

Well...he didn't say IF he had his bike in the Ktrc engaged mode.So who knows.I would think the Ktrc would still work...I'm guessing here that the plate position is being 'set' by the ECU and throttle position,not fuel/air mix.This deal is supposed to be intuitive...responding to wheel spin ,front and back.Not sure the secondaries actually have a real role in the punch factor.The ignition gets adjusted for stopping wheel spin...from what I read.Naturally,the secondaries would be somewhat affecting the whole process(which is in microseconds)..but to what extent...I wouldn't know.

You know...you're rolling on in a wheelie,lofting,then the front wheel begins to slow..and the Ktrc kicks in causing the front to drop and both wheels to be rotating again at the same speed.Is that secondaries?It sounded like ignition to me in that one vid of that guy on the zx10R.He was keeping the throttle(plates)wide open.But the motor was being adjusted to stop the wheelie from going any further.When he had both wheels back on the ground,the engine kicked in again with the flies and all wide open.And away he went...happy as a clam.

I'm guessing if you have the Ktrc turned off,then the bike is gonna perform like a stock 14...so if she starts lofting,she's gonna go to the 12:00 real quick,and beyond if yer not real careful.Flies or no flies.??????Without that wheel spin(front/back)input...it just thinks it's a "normal' bike.That's what I'm guessing.I think taking the flies out will enhance an already kick azz motor.I don't think it's gonna cause any problems with the Ktrc turned on.If it detects wheel spin,it's gonna adjust no matter WHAT the engine speed or velocity.????I'm not sure if I understood Kawasaki's explanation of the secondaries role in the whole process...even though it was mentioned.The focus of the thing seemed to be on the ignition timing being the main way that the Ktrc operated.I think(if this is correct)the secondaries were being adjusted during this ignition adjustment for 'smoothness' of engine performance.Okay....to me that says....the secondaries are a 'buffer' for the kick or whatever.Removing those will most likely give the whole deal more of an "edge' I would think.You know....what Kawasaki thinks of as smoothness...is probably different than what we here really want...quick hard throttle response.You removed those flies in the earlier models...what happened?Better throttle response,and more of an 'edge'.I think it's the same here.No matter what...you turn off that Ktrc,yer gonna get wheelspin.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/2/2011 @ 12:17 PM *

Grn14 wrote:

IF the secondaries are actuated at the throttlebodies as the previous ones...then the stacks don't really 'know' whether they're open or not,yes?I'm just guessing here.So removing them wouldn't actually affect the Ktrc would it?I mean..the actuator shaft would still be thinking they're in there,right?

Thats not the point.

The point is, Ktrc will slam the secondary butterflies closed for an instant to stop, for example, a slide from developing due to rear wheelspin.

If the secondaries have been removed, Ktrc may be ineffective in some situations where you would like it to be very effective.

Get a Guhl (etc.) flash with aggressive secondary table, and you can have the best of both.

Flash secondaries is like saying, slam a tre-toggle a 220ohm on it; no need to hard set a soft set is to send it out? For watt? Where are the computer exspurts? On/Off ~ hard/soft ~ Toggle it or direct; no off switch to it [call Ivan ho he knowsame old parts].

Gotta remember too, shift position sensor calls the fly speed. I would think being in N means nothing on the whip up. Gotta camera up and know what gear opens her up more. I'll find out soon enough on a sustained wheel spin.

And as mentioned, there is K-crap for cut/rip/an/paste, means, one variable off the 3-ring circus. Remember, most bikes with this cutting off power mode is fuel/ign only. Kawi says they are the only ones with the fly added... Obtw, where is the dash spike? You didn't nail the tire long enough to kick in a code = no fly with too much wheel spin.

I have no clue how that wheel signs off the spin in 3 modes? For now, I have to vie care Wee us Lee too, for I must keep watching use is two.

Were these observations made on a dyno? I read the original thread and can't tell. Assuming dyno, I assume front wheel was still. So the TC sees rear wheel spinning, front wheel still and tries to reduce power... by holding the fly closed.

we need someone to watch the flies on road with both wheels spinning at the same time. I expect a different observation...

russty, explain to me how someone can watch the secondaries with both wheels spinning.

wee

a rolling road or a camera inside airbox. not easy I know.

reason for my post is wondering if the TC is shutting off the flies because it thinks the rear wheel is spinning out of control. seat of the pants impressions and 1/4 mile times suggest this produces more power including down low. How is it doing that if the flies are 3/4 shut off? maybe on the road the flies are wide open (both wheels are spinning) so the TC does not interfere

russty, I'm a drag racer doing what I know works, getting more horsepower from a 14r is what I am trying to share with owners, let's see and hear what you are doing with your 14r.

wee

Well...I'm just gonna turn the Ktrc OFF...no fly involvement at all There....now it won't matter!Got me a set of JIS phillips on the way.Just in case!Wheelie says remove em....I'm with that....long as the Ktrc doesn't go KOO KOO.If something doesn't work right...back in they go!!!!!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/2/2011 @ 7:28 PM *