Hey listen, since we were off topic on some other off topic topic, listen to this, my head cover bolts were not tight at all. I mean, I was going to remove the cover to do the valve clearance inspection anyway ---and put a new gasket in there to stop the leak of oil. I suppose I will go ahead and replace the gasket but to tell you the truth, If I would have just checked the torque on these a year or two ago, I have a sneaking suspicion I would have stopped the leak. I used my 3/8" drive ratchet and it felt like ~2ft lbs on each one. Spec is ~7.25 ft lbs. Pretty light but still, that is not what I was feeling.

So we have bottoms to the threads?? I doubt another few ft lbs would amount to more than a few degrees of a turn. That would not compress the head cover much more. But I still wonder if proper torque would have solved the leak problem?

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Head cover gone. I turned the motor with the intakes covered u with little plastic sheets rubber banded in place. I havd no idea that engine, turned by hand, would make enough suction to disrupt the dust covers I had on there. Thank goodness all rubber bands and all plastic covers were recovered. Nothing got sucked in but one got blown off and another half sucked in. Woulda made for a bad night. Was kind of funny, actually.

Now here's the next question, Hub. The SM says to find TDC at end of compression stroke for Cyl #1----then measuer valves indicated in the diagram p 2-23.

Next Find TDC end of compression stroke for cyl #4 and measuer all the other valves as indicated in the diagram for piston #4.

SO, I have my timing marks lined up. Here are pics of my cams as they sit on Cyl #1 and #4. What cylinder is at TDC??? I haven't got a clue so I do not know which valves to measure.

CYLINDER #4

CYLINDER #1

and we have timing marks set up same as before I got myself all the way into this.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/8/2011 @ 10:31 PM *

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Here's another one for ya, Hub...I have the cover bolt removed and set in the positions they came from. Notice the far right have threads all carboned up. The others are all clean. What do you make of that?

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/8/2011 @ 10:36 PM *

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Funny stuff, Rook [key]! Did you pull the plugs out? That would have no compression to suck the bags in. Not to worry. You're doing fine. Oh look! You pulled the cover and the gaskets stayed in place! What are you going to do? Try to pop the cover back on, do not disturb the rubber cover gaskets? Pull the gasket off, hand dry them with those spent paper towels and nothing else, but clean them and inspect for damage/reuse/discard... OR... Leave the rubbers there as it, cause you know it will plop right back over it if you did not move a thing.

Interesting observation about that hot carbon build on the threads. Were those the leakers for the washers or were they the most loose? If you need to pull the cam caps, address those 2 dirty holes with brake clean. Same with the 2 bolts, meaning, wipe them off.

Any 4-cycle engine, I don't care if it is boat/mower/plane/car/bike/train, you name it, there are only 4-strokes and the one stroke you want to study is that intake. take your time turning the engine with the plugs out don't forget. Same as the throttle bodies, you play with this and walk away from it. Somehow, that time lag and this digestion of the action finding TDC of any engine is child's play (kid!)

We know the intake cam is on the throttle body side. We want to watch that intake cam as we sit on the bike and now far left is #1 cylinder. Far right is #4. SM says to find TDC by watching the intake move the shim bucket down into the head. This compresses a spring. You'll see it once the cams come out. But for now, you want to watch the action of the cams move. This way, a few spins are not going to destroy any part of the bike's engine. the way it sits still wet with all that handling, that top end is going to be lubed before you can wink. Again, it takes a tremendous amount of heat and thousands of rpm's to start to cook parts. A few hand turns will not.

So practice following #1 TDC a few times. Then you can watch the intake cams follow the timing sequence: 1-2-4-3. See, by following the very first cylinder, you can figure out who is going to perform the next 'watch the intake push the valve/bucket/spring/retainer/keepers = DOWN!

Once you see that intake cam on #1 cylinder push that bucket [down-down-down], you then move your eyes to the timing wheel. You then find the 1-4 again and set it at TDC 1-4. And to know you are at #1 TDC; the lobes should be sticking out on #1 and the lobes should be facing in on #4 = YOU FOUND #1 TDC!

Pretty easy, no?

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And what are we going to do with those worn in virgin chain to cam gears? You have that timing pin to count, right? SM does not tell you they left out the timing marks on the Aprilia. You dial indicator kind of cam degree setup just to get it right. You got it easy. UP Aprilia and up the SM count. On account of me stabbing that craft crap in a tube on the cam and sprockets. You can use a magic marker and line up your marks. That contact or brake clean comes in handy to wipe a link and lower part of the cam sprocket with a paper towel. Mark the in. and ex. links like straight up at 12:00. Mark the sprocket right below it. No needing a count. As long as the lower link did not move at the crank, you are good to go on that loophole.

You are back to #1 TDC. You marked the cam to chain marks... After... Finding all your clearances. Oh, but this is the last thing you do. Right now, you are finding that TDC for number 1. You also found all your shim clearances written down. You now mark the cam to chain for disassembly. You don't need to count pins, just reinstall those marks back together.

THIS IS #1 TDC.

You have 4 valves to inspect for #1 cylinder. The SM shows the other 4 individual valves to inspect. You then turn the crank one full turn, you now mirror the #1 cylinder again, but on the other side is #4 @ TDC. The SM says to inspect the other individual shim clearances. You tagged all 16 valves via 2 complete turns once you find TDC #1 compression. That was book 'flat rate' style. I turn each cylinder to its own compression stroke, watching the in. go down, come up and now set it at #2-3 compression. Move to #4 compression, then to #3... I turned the crank 2 more times. I followed the sequence 1-2-4-3 as I inspected the valves as per matching #1; three more times.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/8/2011 @ 11:51 PM *

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Did you pull the plugs out? That would have no compression to suck the bags in

Nope. but recalled you mentioning that would alleviate the compression/suction situation ---after it happened--fortunately no suck ins.

I am a bit over cautious about getting any dirt in the motor through any hole--plug, intake, air box, crank sensor----anything. My baby is sitting out in a garage for days on end so I do my best to plug or cover everything back before I end my wrenching activities for the night. Then she gets covered with a blanket.

OR... Leave the rubbers there as it, cause you know it will plop right back over it if you did not move a thing.

Yes, i am sure the gasket is stuck to the top of the head. Prolly the leak was only between the head cover and the gasket. Hate to go through all this work and have the gasket leak again---so I most likely will replace all.

Were those the leakers for the washers or were they the most loose?

The carboned up bolts were no more loose than any of the others. The leak in the gasket was on the opposite side--the left toward cyl #1. no oil visible on outside right of eng case. It is a mystery. I will clean away every spec of carbon on the threads and anywhere it hides---also seems to be a lot of carbon in those stubby, hollow tubes that stick up by the spark plug wells (you can see one in each pic of cam lobes)--- I think the tubes are the dowel pins for positioning the cover.

We know the intake cam is on the throttle body side.

Actually, I did not know that until now. I expected to find 1 camshaft for all cams since this is an in line motor. but yeah, I see the intake C shaft is toward the back.

Once you see that intake cam on #1 cylinder push that bucket [down-down-down], you then move your eyes to the timing wheel. You then find the 1-4 again and set it at TDC 1-4. And to know you are at #1 TDC; the lobes should be sticking out on #1 and the lobes should be facing in on #4 = YOU FOUND #1 TDC!
Pretty easy, no?.................

.....You have 4 valves to inspect for #1 cylinder. The SM shows the other 4 individual valves to inspect. You then turn the crank one full turn, you now mirror the #1 cylinder again, but on the other side is #4 @ TDC. The SM says to inspect the other individual shim clearances. You tagged all 16 valves via 2 complete turns once you find TDC #1 compression. That was book 'flat rate' style. I turn each cylinder to its own compression stroke, watching the in. go down, come up and now set it at #2-3 compression. Move to #4 compression, then to #3... I turned the crank 2 more times. I followed the sequence 1-2-4-3 as I inspected the valves as per matching #1; three more times.

That's the "follow the rules and don't worry about asking why" answer. I will of course play around with turning the motor ...I NEVER really learned much following rules.. Thank s Hub!

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/9/2011 @ 4:21 PM *

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Checked all 8 valves in the #1 TDC group tonight. 4 are out of spec. Gonna be pulling cam shafts. A How To check cam clearance is good but a How To check AND adjust is even better.

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.....and that wil be another $100 for a micrometer. oh--shims!!

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For this first time situation, you want to work one side at a time. That is why you didn't even move the cam caps off the intakes. You are going to work your numbers with whatever shims are on the exhaust clearances first. You'll want a bungee cord to hook the chain so it doesn't drop off the crank sprocket. It shouldn't move off the intake cam being pulled by the cord.

You're going to need a good magnet to pull those buckets out of their recess. And these buckets are going to be light and delicate. The shims will come out with the bucket and will be under it or be sitting in valve retainer.
1. Place the replacement shim with the numbers down on the retainer. You'll see how they were placed once you start pulling buckets.
2. The buckets have their own wear patters. They need to be replace back in the same cavity. And note how delicate you have to be to send them home. It either slides in or you cocked it. Be real careful because they spin via the angle of the cam over it. You just can't see the fine angle they use before it wrinkles and flattens out. Watch the buckets spin as the cam moves over them.
3. That vernier is going to be just fine for measuring. If the shim does not match the number with the vernier, don't panic, it's not the vernier. The shims sort of make their own number as opposed to the stamped number. Spinning wear and all that hammering or peen'ing down on it.
4. Once you have the shims and buckets out of the exhaust side, slip the exhaust cam back in with the chain and all that. Then remove the intake cam with cord in place, then find your shim sizes to cross reference your valve clearances.
5. A thing about shims. Aftermarket, you can buy a whack of shims for $80 bucks in kit form. You get what you pay for. If OEM shims are 11 bucks a piece, you need 8? See what I mean? Plus, my sponsor works on these all day long and uses OEM and told me not to use the cheapshit. Your call.

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Thanks, Hub. There is a lot there ^^^ that I will be referring back to but for now, I am focussed on writing up the parts/tools order. ...now that all is disassebled and measured, we are ready to head back to top mechanical condition.

5. A thing about shims. Aftermarket, you can buy a whack of shims for $80 bucks in kit form. You get what you pay for. If OEM shims are 11 bucks a piece, you need 8? See what I mean? Plus, my sponsor works on these all day long and uses OEM and told me not to use the cheapshit. Your call.

Oh Geeze. We have ALL intakes out of spec. TWO exhaust out of spec. ALL REMAINING exhaust barely in spec and I planned to re-shim them to a bit wider to be safe.

i think this will be a total re-shim job.

10. Would you stop with the $100 tools! Look, we are going to loophole that mic too. This will read it in inch or mm.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM1780479601P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

Thanks, that helps. I will get that. Also heard HF has a good mic for ~$20. Will get the jog done for you if ypu are not a frequent mic user.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/11/2011 @ 10:20 AM *

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Here are my valve clearances ---I have checked and rechecked and rechecked again.

A. As you can see, the valves marked with pink T are all tight.

B. #2 right exhaust, the .203mm feeler fit but was very snug (tight- a little hard to get back out) so I decided I would accept the next smaller tap which is .178. Sound good?

C. Most of the exhaust valves are in spec but just by a hair----so can/should I go ahead and adjust them closer to the loose end of spec?

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/11/2011 @ 10:24 AM *

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B. Yep, swap the 305 for a 178.
C. Yep, set them loose.

Mine is somewhat noisy with the loose shim clearance. You can swap the 203 for 178's but you still measure to make sure. Looks like you can get away with a bunch of 150's. See if the 110 will fit in the 210. Swap those shims, install the cam, take a reading. You'll be buying less shims you try to drop the lower numbers into the higher out of spec shims. It's a little more work, but you'll save bucks if you don't need so many shims.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/11/2011 @ 1:26 PM *

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Thanks, Hub.

C. Most of the exhaust valves are in spec but just by a hair----so can/should I go ahead and adjust them closer to the loose end of spec?

Now I am thinking set them for tightest in spec for optimum performance as long as you are prepared to deal with doing this task again before too long. I would like to shoot for minimum clearance of .22 exhaust and .15 intake. I guess i'm right there on all of my intakes except for the rights on cyls #3 and #4.

If .152 is my goal for all of the intakes----let me run this through verbally before I start tearing cam shafts out---

IFthe intake cam shaft is removed and the lifter(buckets, you are calling them) for the right intake valve, Cylinder #3 is removed, there will be a factory installed shim underneath.
IF I wish to increase the clearance of the right intake valve, cylinder #3 from .127 to .152, I need to install a shim which is .025mm thicker than the factory installed shim.

SOI need to measure the factory installed shim with a calipers or mic and replace it (or swap in) with shim which is .025mm thicker <<<and I will want to measure the replacement shim with the calipers too because the size marked on it may be off?

......goes something like that?

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/11/2011 @ 7:26 PM *

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I know we've talked about this a couple years ago, Hub. I was gong to get the Motion Pro manometer but came across this beauty. Think it would work as well as the manometer? 0-03" for vacuum. IDK whatthe range for the manometer is. The mano is simpler. I don't imagine anything would ever wear out or get rusty on it as long as it is not stepped on or dropped it should work the same for ever.

BIKEMASTER CARB SYNCH 4 GAUGE

SYNCHPRO TUNER

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Yes, the goes something like that but you went in the opposite direction I believe. Here is that visual. When we look at that bucket coming up all the time. Each valve tends to pound itself toward its bucket. "That shim under that bucket needs to become thinner," not thicker. And yes, your real number is going to be that shim thickeness as your direction to go thicker or thinner. The larger the gap, the less that valve was pounding itself toward the bucket. So, that simple direction is how you watch the gap change.

Here again, that gap can pound the valve tip flat. At one time it slid thru the valve guide. But it was soft on that end, harder on the seat end, now you have a wider gap this way. It will not side down the guide hole being mushroomed like that. So, say you have 2 directions happening that you can explain how they got there.

As far as the two vacuum ideas, you pretty much nailed what would happen to both. Gotta remember too about those needle fluffers at the gauge's nipple. With the liquid meter, you have that little plastic insert with a tiny hole in it. This is so the liquid does not get sucked out. Well, let me make a pro/con list in no certain order.

1. Liquid lost if anything happens... Sans being poured out.
2. No liquid to be poured out or poured in the engine if there is a mishap with vacuum needles.
3. Liquid you store upright and be careful how you handle the tube faces and/or body.
4. Needles, you just drop them safely on any position... Sans the faces to be scratched or who cares, it's durable with a little banging and face down.
5. Liquid needs no adjusting.
6. Needles need to read at the same number is pick a cylinder and now maintenance of that spring tension inside is fatiguing so is that machine built against the pull of air. So, that needle might be different somehow between a weak spring and how one gauge takes on heat or room temp, it will need a pre-LOOK-see, where the liquid is a; no brainer adjustment needed.
7. 200 dollars worth of many parts vs. 80 dollars worth of plastic injection mold. That is 120 smackers toward shims and gaskets.
8. No, let him choose. Either one dials in [if] you prep the needles first [if need be]...

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/12/2011 @ 6:20 PM *

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you went in the opposite direction I believe.

IF I wish to increase the clearance of the right intake valve, cylinder #3 from .127 to .152, I need to install a shim which is .025mm thicker than the factory installed shim.

ooooo,, now i see. if I want to make the gap between the cam and the bucket larger, I need to drop the bucket by floating it on a thinner shim. the camshaft aint f going nowhere. It just stays where it is. The bucket is brought up closer to the cam by a fatter shim. That will decrease the clearance between the shim and the cam. or the bucket gets lowered with a skinnier shim and that makes the gap between the bucket and the cam larger.

8. No, let him choose. Either one dials in [if] you prep the needles first [if need be]...

I think I will go with the manometer. Dennis Kirk has everything I need. ONE STOP SHOPPING! Those plugs are not cheap. $10-$15 for 1 iridium.

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I was thinking "doN OT let that screw fall. The SM warns abou that . Down it went almost like I did it on purpose.

I let out quite a stream of foul language. Glad it was easy to find and retrieve.

BTW, hub---how do you get the CCT pushrod to pop out after it is locked into the housing and bolted on? I'm not able to spring it with a screw driver as the SM instructs.

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I'll tell you, I was, 'how can I get that screwdriver to get behind that cct as per photo?' Then, I tapped the cam chain where I thought the rod was? I then moved the two cct screws back out. Once I noticed the cct housing was being pushed out, I knew the cct triggered itself; by watching it move a few screw turns out.

That sounds very much like the chain of events that took place during my attempt last night. You put a screwdriver in the engine case and reach the tip back toward the CCT and there is the back run of the cam chain stretched right across the pushrod. I shine a flashlight down in there and I can see a bit of the housing but the pushrod is obstructed the chain. I tried pushing on the chain. Even tapping. I am not comfortable tapping and scraping around in there.

I unscrewed the CCT screws on the face plate 3 times. The CCT fits into the hole rather snug because of the o ring that seals the hole. I don't know if the spring in the CCT would be strong enough to push it out even in if it did spring because that o ring would cause some resistance.

.....then again, that spring has a huge amount of tension the first couple centimeters. I don't think the oring could stand up to that. The cam chain is VERY tight on the back run. I doubt that the CCT has much slack to take up. That CCT should push right out of the hole when you loosen the screws.

....yet, it did NOT push itself out when I first removed it....not until I pulled it out a little bit. I think that O ring might be stronger than the spring.

Regardless of how I might go about testing whether or not the CCT spung, the first thing is to figure out how to spring it. I think maybe a long rod with a 90 degree bend at the bottom. Reach down there and twist the tip behind the cam chain then you are right against the CCT push rod. Either that or a maple wood dowl. Shave the side down so it will be thinner and stick that aginst the inside of the back run of the cam chain. That< i would not lose any sleep tapping around with because t is not going to scrape things up in there.

I also have an APE sitting on the shelf which I planned to install. I really would like to get he OEM back in just for my own satisfaction and to know I can do it because that APE might be coming back out one day.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/15/2011 @ 9:07 AM *

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GOT IT! Peering down in there, you push on the inside of the back run of the can chain right at the point where the cam chain runs over the tensioner pushrod.

NO need to tap. Just get the screwdriver blade set on the chain and push firmly. I gave it a couple quick hard pumps and I heard the pushrod ratchet out.

I'm curious, The SM warns NOT to turn crankshaft without the cam chain tensioner in. I can see how that would be a problem for running the motor but just to turn it by hand, could I leave the CCT out?

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pisses me off when I buy aftermarket parts and they are heavier than OEM

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/15/2011 @ 12:29 PM *

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No, do not leave the cct out while turning. The chain is so loose, rubbed smooth on the teeth side, they tend tor ride up and out of the cam gear. Yeah, they roll over the teeth when loose as a goose just like that = Dink an open valve; to a too close of a piston; coming up to TDC. You could turn the crank and pop off the chain that way is what they are saying. The cam being out of tooth phase can sometimes tag a valve.

shwew! glad i put that thing back on there. ...else your saying basically I'd be screwed. Amazing how many near misses I have the first time around.

So, what do you think about the wear that we have on the caps?

Looks smooth near the front and back but the top is scored.

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fockadoodle-doo! there are all kinds of tests I can do on camshaft wear. runout, journals, cam lobes........I might never ride this bloody bike again. Just buy tools to fix it.

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Ya, that's why I'm wondering if it's even worth replacing the towers. If the same thing has happened ti the crank shaft, I don't know if the cam shafts are all that imp[ortant.

I doubt it has anything to do with the air filter. You think mine looked too dirty after 11000 miles? at least I changed it. IDK. Always have kept oil at the proper level even though I have been losing a small amount of oil for 20,000 miles. Changed oil every 2500 and never went over by more than a hundred--only a couple times. Can count onone hand the times I started the bike and immediately rode off. She always gets warmed up to three bars. all I can do is try to make sure oil is getting up there and watch the cam caps for similar wear.

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You change heads if you want new caps.

Wow man, WAIT wait wait wait. I'm too tired to look now but recall that I just looked in the SM and there was a test for cap/cshaft journal clearance. You stick some plastigauge in there. If the plasti comes out to thick and you r clearance is out of spec.........geeze I hope they didn't say buy a new engine block, for crying out loud. I thonk it was replace caps.. ah man, I'll look.

If the clearance still remains out of the limit, replace the cylinder head unit.

Fock if you're not right on that, Hub. Damn. Oh well. It's done. All the more reason to whip the piss out of that bike every opportunity I get. This is not a new prissy bike any more. I'll smooth those caps out As much as I can and we'll find a way to make sure we are getting oil all the way up to the camshafts. I may back up that ticker a bit with a pace maker. You know, do some beefing up of the circulatory system. Not this summer. That will be a winter project.

why the hell make a steel part that can be replaced run against a tiny aluminum part that cannot be replaced? OH, of course-----so they can charge you to pull the engine and replace the whole whole outside and swap all the innards over. That should only cost what? 2-3 thousand dollars in labor?? I guess I see why the scheduled maintenance list says to "replace engine" at 60,000 miles.

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Okay, Hubster. All the SM says about your lifters is to "remove them."

Is there any trick to that or can I just poke my finger tips on the edges and pull them up--now that the camshafts are out of the way.

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