Since both of these tuners are pretty much doing the same type tuning on the 14r, which tuner does the best job on the ECU and provides more and better running for the 14R?

Pricing seems to be around $375.00, seems like lots of money to plug a USB wire into your ECU and 5 Seconds later you have a tuned ECU.

Ivan charges $425.00, he takes your ECU and sends it to GUHL motors for the reflash...he does not have the equipment to do it himself, he does own a 14r, whereas Guhl works on the public's 14r's that come to his shop.

I don't see the advantage of using a middle man, who really does nothing but change the address on your package, and sends it to another vendor, then it comes back to him, and he puts your address on your ECU and ships it back to you....

What am I missing out on here??????????

Any other thoughts or input?

* Last updated by: ninjawarrior1244 on 7/12/2012 @ 3:34 PM *

Thats less thsn a power commander... and, if ivan buys a bike. To do his r&d, he needs to re coup, id pay that no problem if the results are as good as everyone says. Ive paid more for an end can

Ninjawarrior1244, Goldwingmann, GixxerJohn, zx14racer, it is a chore keeping up with all your names.

I don't understand what is the point to try to discredit some of the people who are out there working their asses off making our bikes to perform better. If you feel that anybody's product is too expensive, or you don't agree with their business policy, you don't have to expend the money.

I can barely keep up with this one profile, you must have a lot of free time to have so many different names to suit whatever is that you are trying to accomplish. Your posting history is your worst enemy.

Kofla

NINJA ZX-14 MotoVlog

If you will read, you will see it is a question of what you get for your money....NOT to discredit someone, simple question who does the best work, how much, and what do you get for your money?

Muzzy makes pipes, Brock makes pipes, AreaP makes pipes....all different, construction, prices, and power...so when someone is doing a performance up grade for a tidy sum of money, it would be nice to know what is being done to your ECU to see what advantage you get in the end.

No discredit, just an inquiry...go back and read it again.

I think they are both awesome and very close to each other.
You'll be happy with either but if you plan on getting pipes Ivan has the whole package.

Let's ask IVAN..shall we?...Hi IVAN...no offense...but...DO you send your ECU's out to Guhl to flash?

I think it's common knowledge that Ivan and Brock both use Guhl to flash ECU's.
Ivan does have his own flash (parimiters) he uses that is not used by Guhl or Brock.

I see no problem with it.

I'll add that, IMHO, Ivan's set up is more geared towards ride ability.
Brock's is more geared towards 1/4 mile runs.
Both have their place!

Don Guhl,,, well, he is just the master code breaker! I've heard of no one who has complained about him.

* Last updated by: davesxx01 on 7/12/2012 @ 9:35 PM *

Like you said..."I think they are both awesome and very close to each other".I wish there was actually a way to compare flashes in the real.I think mine rides very well...with the Guhl flash(the early one)and the Brock's mapping and PCV.(and Brock's exhaust).I would like to get an IVAN'S map...my gut tells me that it's not so much the flash...but the mapping that's affecting the differences in 'rideability'.Neither guy(to my knowledge) is doing any adjusting to the mapping through the ecu...???Guhl has changed the timing tables...according to what he did with mine(part of what he did)...but....the bike runs VERY smooth...at least to me it does...but I can't compare one...I'm the only one here!!!The ONLY thing I have to 'compare' to is my stock factory ECU....I bought one early on....so THAT ecu does not bring out the kick that the flashed one does...even with the piping on there.However...if I am remembering right..it's been a while now...the smoothness between the two ECU's is virtually the same.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/12/2012 @ 9:57 PM *

Ivan is VERY meticulous about his mapping on ANY bike he sells a kit for. And his hard work shows. The Ivans pc/map/tre for flies out and slip-ons on my 06 was beyond amazing....worth every penny I paid and then some It is more than a Guhl's flash, but Ivan adds his own fuel and ignition mapping tables, and I would bet big money they will rock for street ridng on a 14R. For drag racing I would go with Brock, but for a mainly street bike I would pay the extra for Ivan.....imo he's that good

Well...I want to get an Ivan map...I do....but I sure don't want to pay another 300something dollars for a flashed ECU that 'might' be exactly the same as my GUHL....you see what I mean?

Interesting discussion.

When Don Guhl flashes a C14, he replaces the A/F and Ignition tables in the ECU with a set of data he developed from doing dyno runs with the C14. When I ride over to see him later this summer, he will put mine on the dyno and do a few runs (probably 5 or 6) and use the results to decide what to flash over those tables.

I don't know if he does the same thing for the ZX14, but I would imagine he is.

Chances are, Ivan doen't provide the actual flash image file to Guhl, but rather specifications for what he wants done for the ECUs he sends to Guhl. If he sends a map to Guhl, Don is smart enough to figure out how to convert that to an A/F map table for a flash.

Grn14; since you already have a Guhl flash I would definitely not get the Ivan's flash. I would check with Guhl or watch his facebook posts to see if he has any new updated though! They are free except for the shipping.

Agreed with others though, you (ninjawarrior) are not paying for the 15 seconds of flashing, you are paying Ivan or Guhl for the countless hours of development time. Well worth it!

Okay...I'll go with your advice..thanks for taking time to respond....glad your monster's doin well Dave!

Grn14 or anyone else,,,
I am not saying "Don't get the Ivan's flash" I think either one is awesome. I'm just saying if you already have a flash there is no need to over write what you have and expect a massive change. Update what you have sure,,, if an update is available.

I will make a full ride report early next week,,,,, after I finish wiping this grin off my face!!

Well...I want to get an Ivan map...I do....but I sure don't want to pay another 300something dollars for a flashed ECU that 'might' be exactly the same as my GUHL....you see what I mean?

It's not the same and you can feel a difference.... especially when combined with my fuel map.

If you are in the area, you are welcome to come to my shop and take my bike for a ride
(If I decide to let you after meeting you)

I will not discuss ECU specifics as this is my intellectual property (which I don't share publicly)
But all of the items that are part of my flash were chosen and instructed to be what they are by me... not someone else... I'm the tuner, I did all the testing with my bike.... not someone else or use someone else's tests.

But, the people that have ridden both, will also tell you that they can easily tell a difference.

Just because you spent your money with someone else, and something better comes along, don't be annoyed and tell others that it's not needed.... you (not you personally) are doing yourself and others a huge dis-service.

BTW.... I do plenty of top speed testing (with a test partner who has the same bike, pipe, and mods) This is just the same as racing.... in fact it's better... known comparisons in the real world under controlled conditions (no egos)... all my stuff is proven on the road as well as the dyno.... sometimes 200 mph in the same lane together.... top speed and hp are just as important to me as they are to my competitors, but on the same note, the less than full throttle tuning is just as important.... a complete package that gives up nothing.

I don't get involved with racing on the weekends because I work doing the same thing 6 days a week... I am entitled to a life too..

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/14/2012 @ 5:29 AM *

Will your ECU stop this nasty detonation I'm getting below 5000 rpm? It does it even in first gear.

My bottom line question is simple:

What differences or advantages are the Ivan flash for the 14r over the Guhl flash?

375.00 Guhl Flash, 450.00 Ivan Flash...same flashing??

Please explain what the extra 75.00 is going to do for me. I understand flashing only gives 1-2 more HP over a non-flashed ECU.

Please explain?

Mr Ivan are you doing the flash at your shop or do you have to send them out to be flashed to your specs?

Just courious

Thanks -- Bobby

As far as the price difference between the 2 it is up to them what they want to charge and us for what we want to pay. Who may be better is a who knows. We may want better ridability at less than WOT and some of us are nuts and only know WOT. Might be hard to hit both worlds with one tune and each tuner has a method to their madness just as we the common folk do.

With that said what is the $75 difference

Getting both worlds is easily attainable on the same program...

What the specifics between mine and others is my proprietary info.... this is not open for discussion.

If this turns you off then so be it.... all the info (symptoms that are removed and offered features are on my website)

This is basically whose jet kit doe you like better.... use the tuner that you like the most and whose reputation you trust.... after 25 years in this business, most people know that I'm reputable.

I am tight lipped about my program, because I this is my livelihood and I am tired of people stealing my intellectual property after I invest the thousands of dollars, and hours of my time to figure everything out for all of you..... to make your bike run to it's fullest potential and have an excellent running program that addresses all the issues involved in tuning a motorcycle.

Sorry to be stern/rigid about this, but this is the way that it has to be for me.

$425.00 (Extra $50 is for shipping both ways back and forth to Guhl insured for $1500.00 both ways)

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/14/2012 @ 9:49 AM *

I could be wrong, am many times, but isn't the real difference between yours Mr Ivan and Don Guhls actually going to be in the fuel map? Isn't the ECU flash really just getting rid of restrictions Kawasaki put in there and the fuel map controls the driveabilty and extra HP?

My flash does not have a fuel map... (there are only changes that happen as a default from changing some of the other things in there)

I recommend the PCV for fuel adjustments because it is the easiest to deal with for you the customer.... you can make the changes yourself, or you can go to your favorite dyno tuner.

Any fuel changes that need to be made to the ECU involve down time, and expensive shipping costs.

I will include my PCV map with PCV purchases or if you get my flash and you already have a PCV, then I will share it with you as a "perk" for spending your money with me.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/15/2012 @ 1:28 PM *

Will your ECU stop this nasty detonation I'm getting below 5000 rpm? It does it even in first gear.

There is no popping on decel at all with my setup.... no disappointments here.

If you are hearing a gargle/rattle in the intake at lower rpms (while on the throttle), it may be resonance caused by the pipe... no way to fix that without using a different pipe.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/14/2012 @ 10:06 AM *

Ivan, thanks for all the info you have provided!
Much appreciated!
For those on the fence, I guess it's pretty clear what you should get!

I've known this clown since the days of the FZ-1 site.His bitchin with Dale Walker are legend.This guy is a goof.I mistkenly bought something from him that was supposed to help with 1-3 roughness.Didn't do any thing but cause my indicater to say 6th gear.Took it off and it sits on my garage floor to this day.
Craig

.Didn't do any thing but cause my indicater to say 6th gear.Took it off and it sits on my garage floor to this day.

Sounds like you bought a TRE008 ?????

that was supposed to help with 1-3 roughness

hmmm, if above is correct and you did buy a TRE 008, this piece was to be used for faster secondary throttle plate opening. Explains why 6 is showing.

Ivan what do sell to fix 1-3 roughness, first I heard of this,,, do tell.

Audioboyz what is this 1-3 roughness ???? Any one else have ???