im just amazed that some people think they can feel a 3 to 8 bhp difference on a 190 bhp bike,
the single biggest difference i felt after a flash was the injectors still feeding and not shutting off instantly after you shut throttle, bike smoother to ride on/off power

Grn in your mind I didn't take my bike to a dyno. But I did. I exactly followed my formula, you're just too shortsighted to understand how.

Pre-modification acceleration test establishes base time.
- (performed with stock ECU)

You take your bike to a dyno, they establish your dyno baseline.
- (CBlast developed flash on dyno, showed dyno gains)

They tune your bike.
- (CBlast flashed my 2nd ECU)

They give you your dyno numbers, you measure the difference.
- (the exact numbers don't matter, it is enough to know that on a dyno there is more hp than a stock ecu)

You run a post tune acceleration test, establishing post tune time.
- (performed with CBlasted ECU)

You measure the difference between the baseline time and the post tune time. Correlate dyno "improvements" to test results.
- (There is no difference, even though on a dyno the numbers are better than stock ECU)

Live daily knowing whether or not your modification actually had a performance impact
- (I know if I were to be in an acceleration contest the CBlasted ECU would offer no particular advantage, except possibly from increasing RL 500 rpm which cost about 25 bucks)

What matters most to me is if the bike is actually faster. It's not. I could give less than a shit the dyno chart is "better".

* Last updated by: VicThing on 9/11/2015 @ 3:40 AM *

im just amazed that some people think they can feel a 3 to 8 bhp difference on a 190 bhp bike,
the single biggest difference i felt after a flash was the injectors still feeding and not shutting off instantly after you shut throttle, bike smoother to ride on/off power

That's what I've argued with people about here the whole time I've been here. Someone puts pipes on, all the sudden their bike "pulls way harder", they put a CBlast flash in (or whatever flash) and their bike "pulls way harder". No, it doesn't they just feel like it does. And honestly, that's all CBlast's rep for having some miracle flash has been based on. At best two test have now shown his flash is equal to Guhl or stock ECU.

CBlast uses WRT software which can't do anything about fuel cut (injector shut off)... so CBlast can't do this same mod because WRT software doesn't do it.

LOL everyone keeps talking about dynos.... there are dyno competitions so unless people are into competing in dyno competitions there's not really much point in posting dyno numbers. So if you want to compare dyno sheets do that. Myself, I'm more into riding thus that's where performance mods actually matter, not some piece of toilet paper.

since i put full system and flash, the bike has lost some of its instant torque, at the lowest rpm/throttle opening, but it does pick up harder and faster after 3/4k ,
"pulls way harder" , yes and then you fell into your cornflakes
a flash will not transform this bike , it will iron out ,smoothen, fine tune, refine, improve, but not transform
my throttle shut off was almost like an airbrake, but now that the injectors still pulse there is less front dive, initially it felt like the bike is running on , which i suppose technically it was , as it is still getting fuel,
it is much smoother rolling on and off throttle, its more precise, it makes it more comfortavble to ride, i dont need to concentrate on being more delicate while turning on the power cranked over,
the proof of this was getting onto an unflashed bike and really not liking its abrupt on off throttle feeling

* Last updated by: motero on 9/11/2015 @ 6:51 AM *

can't do anything about fuel cut (injector shut off)... because WRT software doesn't do it.

I've noticed that as I uncover bit after byte, but then again, Vic, this is not setting the maps in backup for lift. Backup is a downed sensor. So there is no way to set the backup, if the wooly can't bring up the backup map to run the 16.5a maps. Make sense? You had to make a map with said 'we take measures' and that measure of rich on lift is a safe map... show me the safe maps. These are driveability maps is the guess.

You need to trigger a flipflop to run the fuel cut... fuel cuts with no codes run 18a+ on lift. The other map is the backup map as opposed to the wooly map. The backup cut is 16.5a for certain sensor failures. But seems the 18a is now the given, me opening up my mouth way back when, and if you don't think they are listening in... Where went my dash loophole for the dash display? Where did my 16.5a go? Coincidence?

And for the flash and OE to meet that 310 number that Smoke tested out, you're right, Vic. And being that I wiped the drive, saved no videos, I had a vid within a vid that showed the pop at 18a stock, then the 16.5a hack and no pop, just a slight pop picked up by the camera's audio.

Congrats on those numbers smurf!

To support what Vic is saying....

Two years back I had a Romans flash and a PCV on the bike. I went to a local shop with a friend who wanted to have his bike run on the dyno. While I was there I decided to have mine done also. Tuner said he could eek out a few more ponies with a custom map. I said fine. Bike made about 3 more horse as I remember up top. $250.00 later and I'm riding home thinking this is utter shit. I rode directly to Roman's place and told him ... take this shit out of my bike and give me back what I had. Bike may have made more on the dyno, but on the road it was obviously slower. Then a week goes by and Romans and I are out tooling around. We do a 2nd gear roll on race and what do you think happens? I put 4 bikes on him by the top of 3rd. Later he tells me he took the dyno map from last weekend and used it top end and used his on bottom end thinking it would be better. Prior to this we were always within a length or so under same conditions.

Point of tale.... I don't ride my bike on dyno's. I ride it on the street. A map that makes more ponies on the dyno doesn't necessarily translate to a better map for the street.

* Last updated by: zx14beast on 9/11/2015 @ 8:48 AM *

"Grn in your mind I didn't take my bike to a dyno. But I did"...really?This is news to me for sure.You could have said that from the gate.Instead of arguing 'dyno applications'.Okay...sorry then for my misunderstanding and comments.I'd be curious to see the results there..between the two.

I thought guys were offering to send their ECU's to ya...I don't remember anything being said about 'I dynoed it and....."

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/11/2015 @ 8:51 AM *

You guys are all crazy...the ticket booth tells me I did the right thing with a flash...

whats the difference between pre flash ticket booth and apres flash ticket booth????
and would it effect my day to day riding? would it fuk,
you are competing, every milisecond counts, not for regular joe soaps it doesnt

* Last updated by: motero on 9/11/2015 @ 11:08 AM *

Haha yeah...I got a ticket with my Cblasted ECU...got pulled over Wednesday night with the stock ECU. Fortunately, the deputy was a really really considerate man and cut me a break. And no I didn't cry, but I was completely honest with him that I was on infraction deferral, and basically he made me promise not to speed anymore. I agreed, for at least this year...he laughed and nodded!

Was a really really cool guy, said he'd had sport bikes too, but said obviously if he saw me out again speeding there'd be no slack at all. So I'm gonna abide by this, I said I would, and I if nothing else have my word (ok I have a few things... but my word is important).

I was polite and didn't argue or anything. I was just as nice to the officer who gave me the ticket a month or so back. Even thanked him for his service and asked for him to be careful.

God Bless our military and law enforcement officers, especially today. I know, they aren't perfect either but most of them are damn fine Americans!

Just exploring my lack of ECU knowledge, a local tuner says a tune isn't about more hp but driveablitiy. More hp is just a by product. This is what I'm looking for. Not greater acceleration or HP, better throttle roll on, smoother through the rev range. Is this an expected outcome of a custom tune?

Vic why does it hurt your feelings so much when someone posts that they love their flash? I really don't understand. This guy is super happy with his results and all is well until you lumber along and "HURRR DURRRRR IT NOT REALLY FASTER CUZZ DYNOZ IZ NOT FOR LIKE THE REALZ WORLD" Grab some Preparation H for your prolapsed ass hole and move along.

Aussie, there is a difference in the power band with the "safety mode" removed,
I will try and post a video where the before and after shows the difference
through out the power range (curve) this is an early Guhl flash, (which i had)
I got C's after, and I like it better ....

OK, going to try this again LOL,
Skip to 6:54 in the video if you don't want to watch all the video,

"At best two test have now shown his flash is equal to Guhl "
I had Guhls, C's is better, BUT even if that were true,

SKIP TO 6:54 IN THE VIDEO, Is shows the differences
This was an early flash, and the results are still there

VIDEO HERE !!!!

* Last updated by: carabuser on 9/11/2015 @ 6:14 PM *

Vic why does it hurt your feelings so much when someone posts that they love their flash? I really don't understand. This guy is super happy with his results and all is well until you lumber along and "HURRR DURRRRR IT NOT REALLY FASTER CUZZ DYNOZ IZ NOT FOR LIKE THE REALZ WORLD" Grab some Preparation H for your prolapsed ass hole and move along.

"I LOVE my new flash!" (fine)

"It pulls way harder now" (not fine, requires proof)

"Look at my uber dyno numbers" (not fine, no proof of anything)

LOL it's fine for people to love their flash. Why would I have any problem with that? Why would I deny you your all time favorite activity of shoving your ECU (flashed or otherwise) in and out your asshole....

Now, when someone starts talking about performance that's an entirely different matter.

Maverick, I think we got off on the wrong foot. So let me set the record straight. No one gives a sloppy fuck about your little drag racing hobby. You're just like everyone else here, an amateur. Your little hobby doesn't make you special. You don't do anything that any one of us here couldn't do if we wanted to waste our time that way. Keep that in mind when you think you're playing an ace when you're just playing with yourself.

News flash Vic. This is an open forum. People can say whatever they want without your approval. Your constantly trying to tear down everyone on the board while attempting to make a point. It's sad really.

Now I will have to address your attempt at marring my riding ability. This is especially hurtful coming from someone as distinguished as yourself. I'm sure there are hundreds of members on every motorcycle board on the planet that have made 8 second stock wheelbase passes. I googled "8 second stock wheelbase" and literally thousands of videos and posts popped up. It really is very easy to do and I'm sure you could head to the track and do it this weekend no? In a week? Maybe a year? Now remember that you brought this up, but ask around if you don't know. What I can do isn't amateur and it's definitely not common by any stretch of the imagination. I am here to offer advice when it's needed and to chop it up with the guys when its not. I have proven my abilities and helped others on this board whilst you de-rail threads daily. I think we know who the blow hard here is.

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 9/11/2015 @ 7:32 PM *

"considerate man and cut me a break"...yeah...cops don't like people who endanger traffic by going too slow....Speed it up some,will ya?At least to the posted limit.

Carabuser - Perfect. Great explanation and easy to see what it means. I am sure all are different but this video shows an advantage to a tune that isn't necessarily about a huge power gain at the top end. Amazing difference along the rev range though!

* Last updated by: AussieZX on 9/11/2015 @ 11:49 PM *

News flash Vic. This is an open forum. People can say whatever they want without your approval. Your constantly trying to tear down everyone on the board while attempting to make a point. It's sad really.

Now I will have to address your attempt at marring my riding ability. This is especially hurtful coming from someone as distinguished as yourself. I'm sure there are hundreds of members on every motorcycle board on the planet that have made 8 second stock wheelbase passes. I googled "8 second stock wheelbase" and literally thousands of videos and posts popped up. It really is very easy to do and I'm sure you could head to the track and do it this weekend no? In a week? Maybe a year? Now remember that you brought this up, but ask around if you don't know. What I can do isn't amateur and it's definitely not common by any stretch of the imagination. I am here to offer advice when it's needed and to chop it up with the guys when its not. I have proven my abilities and helped others on this board whilst you de-rail threads daily. I think we know who the blow hard here is.

no no no no no no no... you're reading way more into what I'm saying than is actually there. What I'm saying is you don't do anything anyone can't do if they wanted to. See, there's many reasons I don't run my bike up a little strip of tarmac every weekend or whatever. Cause it doesn't do anything for me. Listen to me very carefully, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK about you're little drag racing hobby EXCEPT YOU. Maybe your wife or girlfriend does, or your dad, or your best friend. Most likely they don't really care about drag racing, they're only interest is that you do it. No one else gives a fuck.

You're just another guy that rides motorcycles, just like me. Guess what? If you stopped drag racing next week the people running it wouldn't shut down the event. "I'm sorry everyone, Marvic ...(oh sorry).. Maverick has stopped drag racing...therefore we will have no more drag racing". You're just another guy that pays an entry fee and runs down the track few times. Nothing that anyone here can't do if they want.

Because what you're argument is vomiting how you're a 1/4 miler. So you're saying that if I went and started drag racing frequently it would legitimize my points? Or are you saying that if I started drag racing, I'd start to think like you? No...so a drag racing hobby has jack shit to do with dick.

We all care about performance. And therein lays the issue. If the best you can do to rely on performance impacts is dyno toilet paper then I say you're a beginner and far from an enthusiast. When you get serious about performance, give a me a call. Until then, you're just another flat brimmer who talks about how awesome they are because they putt around some tarmac.

You should be able to make a change, go out, measure the difference. Look at this way, you have stock shock on your bike. You run 9.5s. You spend $1200 on an Ohlins shock. You run 9.5s but you like how it feels more now. So that's it, the only difference is you like how it feels. Now don't get me wrong, maybe over time you'll improve your times...but is it the shock or is it you? If you're not running sub 9.5s on a stock bike then most likely you're a large part of it.

I'm not offending you, I'm being honest. Why do you think I rely on times? Because I'm just like you. I can't rely on my ass to really tell me if there's any difference or not. And you know what? The pros don't rely on their ass either. They rely on times and numbers. I mean, you want to impress me show me your performance logs of how you've tracked changes, and track conditions, and such. I'm guessing you'll post back your dog ate them.

I've got a little question for the "numbers" guys here. First of all let me make it VERY clear that I'm not referencing drag racing because I've never done that. So with that said don't get my question distorted into a reference to drag racing ok?
First of all can we agree that "true performance" comes from the combination of bike AND rider, since the bike, no matter the HP, torque, top speed, etc... is of no importance at all without a rider? I mean, they don't drive themselves right? So considering that the combination of HP, torque, speed and yes, "ASS" is required before ANYTHING matters lets delve right into it.
Ok, "Numbers", if I'm reading all these posts correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that if your ass is saying that your bike is performing better that the "package" is actually not performing better? Again, I don't know about drag racing, but I'm willing to wager that if you're alive enough to participate in this forum you haven't been around, ridden or raced bikes much longer than I have...if AT ALL. I'm NOT saying you don't have more accomplished skills or expertise than myself, I'm talking overall experience and general knowledge. So I'm not challenging anything like that, so don't take it personal. It's not meant that way at all. So, here's the nut cuttin on this.
Man/ass thinks bike performs better? Package performs better...period. Whether it's in the form of mental (confidence) or ass (feel). A rider THINKS he's riding faster, he usually is. I've also seen it where the "Numbers" said he should be faster and he wasn't. Usually it was because he didn't THINK it felt any different. There's also the combination of the "Numbers" AND the "Ass" agreeing and he's faster. You'll notice the common denominator is "THINKS". So without going too much further with this, I'm going to say that arguing over what works is just, well...you know. Thanks

Oh, one more thing. What's the point in trying to steal someones thunder if they've done something to their bike and is really happy with the results? Whether it's Romans flash or Cblast flash or Doohickey's flash? I mean isn't the best bike the one your paying for or the one that "in your opinion" is the best for you? There aren't too many Hayabusa lovers on this forum and we'd ALL agree that our beloved 14s are better right? But, in the end there are lots of Hayabusa lovers that would argue with us all day!
Here's one more "numbers" challenge for everyone that feels the need to equate "numbers" to true performance. There's this guy....what's his name....oh yea, Ricky Gadson! I want to see the names of the guys on here that think they could get on his bike and run the same times he runs. Wanna talk about an ego buster, there's one for ya!

Sic

* Last updated by: sickninja on 9/12/2015 @ 8:57 AM *

I'm glad you're happy with your dyno results. They don't mean anything, but I'm glad you're happy.

I've got a little question for the "numbers" guys here. First of all let me make it VERY clear that I'm not referencing drag racing because I've never done that. So with that said don't get my question distorted into a reference to drag racing ok?

It's complicated because while we're on a forum and for the most part only know each other as forum members, we all have a relationship and history here. Maverick has been shoving his amateur hotshit drag credentials in my face for a while now. He didn't explicitly speak of drag racing here, his amateur hotshit drag racing hobby is the authority he's speaking from.

First of all can we agree that "true performance" comes from the combination of bike AND rider, since the bike, no matter the HP, torque, top speed, etc... is of no importance at all without a rider? I mean, they don't drive themselves right? So considering that the combination of HP, torque, speed and yes, "ASS" is required before ANYTHING matters lets delve right into it.

Right on.

Ok, "Numbers", if I'm reading all these posts correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that if your ass is saying that your bike is performing better that the "package" is actually not performing better?

No.

Again, I don't know about drag racing, but I'm willing to wager that if you're alive enough to participate in this forum you haven't been around, ridden or raced bikes much longer than I have...if AT ALL. I'm NOT saying you don't have more accomplished skills or expertise than myself, I'm talking overall experience and general knowledge. So I'm not challenging anything like that, so don't take it personal. It's not meant that way at all. So, here's the nut cuttin on this.

I lump people into two groups, amateurs and professionals. You're either one or the other. We're both amateurs. We both pay to ride, we are not paid to ride. As far as my riding skills... LOL let me put it this way I'm sure the local club racers have no fear of me.

Man/ass thinks bike performs better? Package performs better...period. Whether it's in the form of mental (confidence) or ass (feel). A rider THINKS he's riding faster, he usually is. I've also seen it where the "Numbers" said he should be faster and he wasn't. Usually it was because he didn't THINK it felt any different. There's also the combination of the "Numbers" AND the "Ass" agreeing and he's faster. You'll notice the common denominator is "THINKS".

This has been proven incorrect time and time again. I don't intend any offense, consider this an opportunity for learning. The mindset you have here is that of the most elementary level. Look at what the pros do, they make minute changes and test them, record the befores and afters.

Do you use torque wrenches working on your bike? (I hope the answer is yes). Studies have been found that people who believe they can hand tighten to specification were found to be extremely innaccurate, most commonly vastly under tightening a fastener. But in their minds, they can do it. Which one are you? Do you think you can tighten a faster acurately by hand? Or do you use a torque wrench? I use torque wrenches.

So without going too much further with this, I'm going to say that arguing over what works is just, well...you know. Thanks

I'm glad your happy. That's great. However here's the thing. You're saying my bike makes good dyno numbers. And it does, and that's great. But is that all you're saying? Are you saying your bike is faster? Ok, if you are, you might be surprised that even though you "feel" your bike pulls harder or whatever it's in your head.

There's no feelings about numbers. If you had acceleration numbers of before the flash, and after the flash, then you would KNOW whether or not the bike is actually faster. Dyno increases do not necessarily convert into decreased acceleration times.

This is why it's important to actually do some kind of validation testing. You cannot rely on your ass to tell you the bike is faster.

I have 2 ECUs. The one that came with the bike which remains stock, and a 2nd ECU I bought and had flashed (same part numbers). When I put the flash in I felt things and heard things I hadn't noticed before... one time the bike power wheelied in 2nd gear. Going down the highway, I now heard sort of a twiddling sound. I thought, gee that must be the unified mappings why it sounds different. I was told it sounded different, there I heard it sounding different.

Put stock ECU back in. Huh...well this is strange. It just power wheelied unexpectedly in 2nd gear? Hey wait a second, that twiddling sound is still there.

So here's the thing. Without the ability to put back in a completely stock ECU I would've been one of the people up here posting abhout how great the flash is and now my bike power wheelies in 2nd and makes a different sound driving down the highway. See what I'm saying here?

Cause I actually did post that. However I put the stock ECU back in and experienced the same things I posted that too. Sorry, 0/2 for flashed ECU.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 9/12/2015 @ 9:07 AM *

I want to see the names of the guys on here that think they could get on his bike and run the same times he runs. Wanna talk about an ego buster, there's one for ya!

I'll run him heads up. My stock wheelbase numbers are on par with his and my 65" wheelbase numbers (bolt on extensions) are on par with his 68" (custom swingarm). Lets set it up.

Because what you're argument is vomiting how you're a 1/4 miler. So you're saying that if I went and started drag racing frequently it would legitimize my points? Or are you saying that if I started drag racing, I'd start to think like you? No...so a drag racing hobby has jack shit to do with dick.

You brought drag racing up. I never mentioned it in this thread.

I'm not offending you, I'm being honest. Why do you think I rely on times? Because I'm just like you. I can't rely on my ass to really tell me if there's any difference or not. And you know what? The pros don't rely on their ass either. They rely on times and numbers. I mean, you want to impress me show me your performance logs of how you've tracked changes, and track conditions, and such. I'm guessing you'll post back your dog ate them.

You couldn't offend me if you tried. I keep up with weather conditions in the form of Density Altitude and track my back half ET and MPH. This consists of subtracting the total ET from the 1/8 ET. The same is done with MPH. So for example we have a ticket that shows an 8.69@151.72 with an 1/8 time of 5.56@126.94. So we end up with a quick glance at how that pass went performance wise vs. rider wise. Data. This particular pass showed a 3.13 back half @ 24.78 MPH gained. Every ticket I have (if it's a clean pass) gets those numbers crunched to see if I've stumbled onto something that may have increased my performance. I can add 10 psi to the rear tire and drop back half ET off the ticket while suffering a total ET loss due to wheel spin on the short side of the track. It's a balancing act that requires data to sort out and find the best combo. Since track conditions are different every time out, I have to build a database of known good configurations for said DA and track prep (stickiness). My left hand doesn't do all the work. A racer's best ally is a sharp mind.

* Last updated by: maverick1441 on 9/12/2015 @ 12:19 PM *

Vic go eat a dick please

Vic go eat a dick please

Fair enough. I'll go eat a dick when Marvic can show me the times he has recorded from before and afters when he got his flash. If he can't, he gets to eat a dick. Well I better get to the store...gonna need something to eat.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 9/12/2015 @ 6:31 PM *

Don't forget to pick yourself up a big ole bag of dicks, Vic!