"But I'm still not willing to pay $400+ for a flash where there's still no proof .."

Go to 6:54 in this video, Hope this helps :

Link to Video Here !!!!

Oh, by the way extrapolator, I am not trying to single you out,

just replying in general to this thread, take care

* Last updated by: carabuser on 9/16/2015 @ 12:33 PM *

carabuser

extrapolator

No lytnin, if you like the Cblast flash you aren't allowed to say anything good about it or Sebastian. If you do, you will incur the wrath of DickThing. All hail DickThing - the one who has the ONLY correct opinion!

Opinion? My opinion is Sebastian is nice. But that's where opinion ends. That's the difference between you and I. You have opinions, I have facts. Just think how popular I'd be if my test results had showed the flashed bike was 3/10ths faster! I'd be Mr. Popular, everyone would love me. Well they weren't and I don't care about popularity.

For all your grandstanding your podium is just as see through as you claim mine to be. People standing at glass podiums shouldn't throw stones. I backed CBlast here on the forum. I've got him 4-5 direct orders on his flash product (I don't know for sure...wasn't keeping count just helping). I ordered his product. He's a nice guy, if that's what's most important to you just send him some money. In some ways I understand if you did just send him $1000. Why not? Me, there's a lot of other people on my list I'd help with a financial gift ahead of CBlast.

My opinion is Sebastian is nice. But that's where opinion ends... You have opinions, I have facts.

Your 'facts' are so thin though. Timing a wide open throttle run in one gear, and you call that a real-world test? That barely scratches the surface of what a flash does. It's laughable really.

People standing at glass podiums shouldn't throw stones.

Damn, I'd NEVER say you're on a podium. Neither of us are standing on podiums... you'll never be on one with your attitude! Mav is close though. Lee is there too. You're just too stuck up to acknowledge the skills fast drag racers have. I think you're just scared shitless by it.

* Last updated by: aegisranger on 9/16/2015 @ 7:56 PM *

"I KNOW my bike is running better"
No one is arguing that. It's the "I KNOW my bike is FASTER" that I have the problem with (especially "look at my dyno #s").

And no, I don't care if a flash makes my bike faster. I want smoother power delivery, more power down low, and all the perks that comes with a flash. If it's faster, I won't complain, but it's not a requirement. No, I do NOT ride it like grandma either.

"Timing a wide open throttle run in one gear, and you call that a real-world test? That barely scratches the surface of what a flash does"

I agree. But I also think the quarter mile is a poor test. We need a magazine to take 4 zx14rs, 3 with 3 different flashes, and 1 stock, and have 4 reviewers ride them at a roadrace circuit and public roads for a couple days, and pick a winner. That ain't gonna happen.

I've been sitting back and enjoying this thread, but now have decided to get into the fun. I don't have a flash and probably won't get one, but if I did I would probably get the Guhl flash. Now, I've heard several people mention the "seat of the pants" experience or the lack thereof, so I'll comment off-topic a little on that.

When I first whacked the throttle on my stock bike, I named it: "The Beast", but my first upgrades where the Brocks Alien Head 2 full exhaust and the PCV and my AssOmeter instantly went into the red zone. I COULD DEFINITELY TELL BY THE SEAT OF MY PANTS that my bike had been transformed--PERIOD. I now refer to my bike as a beast on steroids.

Cheers,

skewedTotheLeft - Curious why you wouldn't get a flash? You would seem to be a good candidate for one: A guy who doesn't need numerical / scientific proof that something works in order to be satisfied with it.

"I COULD DEFINITELY TELL BY THE SEAT OF MY PANTS that my bike had been transformed--PERIOD. I now refer to my bike as a beast on steroids".

According to some...you're another victim of mass delusions.

Don't you know you can't trust yer 'ass-dyno'?I mean...some of the experts here have so proclaimed it...so it must be correct...right?

For example... learn something new everyday was that kind of a day.

I thought a cam would wake the bike up> if blueprinted say. Thus was not the case. The bike came in with a pig already installed. Once I felt that throttle, the map said it all. So if say dynojet brings a support truck to the race tracks, checks for a cap on HP, meaning, every bike has to meet, but not exceed a set rating. Not many met that threshold; only a few get close to the number.

If the stock class [warmed over] can blueprint the cam, not port the head, use all stock engine parts, the pipe is open, the pig is open, and that's about it, one would think there is no point using those parts, why not show up with a stock bike and be on par with the pig and pipe bikes.

So if you watch the trap speeds, see it's the highest mph bike in class... didn't the pig work to bring out more HP than stock?

Signed,

Here's your Dick'slap Sandwich.

Perhaps the ECU flash vendors in order to assuage the fears of those suspicious as to the effectiveness of their work product should offer a no questions asked money back/flash the ECU back to its original state guarantee. For all I know, maybe some do. That way the customer would only be out his/her shipping costs.

aegisranger posted:

Timing a wide open throttle run in one gear, and you call that a real-world test? That barely scratches the surface of what a flash does. It's laughable really.

I believe Vic stated at least twice in his thread that his test covered exactly what Cblast told him to cover.

And it makes sense to me: A one-gear roll-on test eliminates the variables of shifting gears and working the clutch. Just put the bike in the desired gear, start at the established speed and hammer it ... while videoing it and timing it.

Now if Cblast did indeed not tell Vic that that's the test he should do, or if that's not where the flash would improve performance, it would be good if Cblast would chime in.

Extrap said:

skewedTotheLeft - Curious why you wouldn't get a flash? You would seem to be a good candidate for one: A guy who doesn't need numerical / scientific proof that something works in order to be satisfied with it.

That's a reasonable question Extrap and I did think about getting the Guhl flash, but after watching the videos that Brock Davidson put on YouTube, I came away thinking that he made three main points:
1. On rare occasions, the 14R will go into some type of safety mode and the flash will prevent that.
2. The Guhl flash will bump up the rev limiter a few hundred rpms.
3. It will take off the top speed limiter.

I have never noticed my bike experience any type of loss of power that one should be able to feel according to the decreased dyno numbers that Brock showed when the bike went into some type of safety mode.

I really don't see the advantage of bumping up the rev limiter (especially since I now have a shift light)--it's not going to make any more horsepower going into the red-zone where the rev limiter would kick in.

I have maxed the bike out to around the 190ish indicated speed and it feels wicked fast at that point, I run a Shinko Hookup on the rear, so I don't need to be running over 200 mph with that tire on the rear.

skewedTotheLeft - Your thinking on flashes is the same as mine.

I appreciate the response.

1. On rare occasions, the 14R will go into some type of safety mode and the flash will prevent that.

You have to actually accelerate hard enough to enter this mode. I personally ran into this 5 to 6 times on the same track night and sent my ECU off to be flashed the next day. Most guys will never encounter this mode.

I agree. But I also think the quarter mile is a poor test. We need a magazine to take 4 zx14rs, 3 with 3 different flashes, and 1 stock, and have 4 reviewers ride them at a roadrace circuit and public roads for a couple days, and pick a winner. That ain't gonna happen.

I agree. Look all I can do is the best I can. Why won't professional reviewers touch these things?

I believe Vic stated at least twice in his thread that his test covered exactly what Cblast told him to cover.

And it makes sense to me: A one-gear roll-on test eliminates the variables of shifting gears and working the clutch. Just put the bike in the desired gear, start at the established speed and hammer it ... while videoing it and timing it.

Now if Cblast did indeed not tell Vic that that's the test he should do, or if that's not where the flash would improve performance, it would be good if Cblast would chime in.

CBlast knew I was going to do testing before ever selling me the ECU. Also, he has specifically told people to go out in 3rd and/or 4th and smash the throttle open at 4,000 rpm. Specifically, he told me to take the bike out in 3rd, smash open throttle, bang off RL, then shift into 4th and bang off RL.

OK, now, here's the thing. The stock ECU is obviously RL @11k. So to do any kind of comparison it's not valid to run it 11k rpm and the flashed ECU to 11.5k. A), if the performance is in that last 500 rpm that's a $25 flash not a $400.

Vic, you posted too quick. My clapping is for the guy before you.

* Last updated by: extrapolator on 9/17/2015 @ 4:54 PM *

You have to actually accelerate hard enough to enter this mode. I personally ran into this 5 to 6 times on the same track night and sent my ECU off to be flashed the next day. Most guys will never encounter this mode.

In early November (after our rainy season), I'll be going to the drag strip for the first time. A bunch of us guys are pitching in for a 5 hour rental of the Bradenton drag strip. Who knows, if I push my bike hard enough and if it goes into that safety mode, I would probably send off my ECU to be flashed. However, I'm smart enough to know that the drag strip is not the street, so I'm probably not going to be able to push my bike that hard until I get some seat time behind me.

Vic, you posted too quick. My clapping is for the guy before you.

"I have never noticed my bike experience any type of loss of power that one should be able to feel according to the decreased dyno numbers that Brock showed when the bike went into some type of safety mode"...it's very subtle,and engineered in the ECU to NOT feel it....dragging,you would feel it I'm sure.Regular riding and then getting on it?You MIGHT be able to detect it when it happens.I do know that after this map was removed that the midrange with mine felt stronger.Punching it in the midrange and taking off..it was stronger.

Thing is....if a guy rides his bike 'normally'(the 14 that is)and never really experiments with some of the more 'extreme' abilities of the motor,he isn't gonna be able to have a comparo in his own mind.If you aren't really familiar with what it CAN do...then you can't really tell if it's different or not.This bike has so many levels of performance that aren't always evident unless a guy takes it there.Like for drag racing.I probably couldn't handle the bike safely in that kind of situation.But that's a whole different level of performance.One I will probably never experience.But I have ridden mine fairly agressively at times...and the performance was very different than just opening her up and playing it 'safe'.So my experiences are pretty limited to be honest about it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/17/2015 @ 7:48 PM *

In early November (after our rainy season), I'll be going to the drag strip for the first time. A bunch of us guys are pitching in for a 5 hour rental of the Bradenton drag strip. Who knows, if I push my bike hard enough and if it goes into that safety mode, I would probably send off my ECU to be flashed. However, I'm smart enough to know that the drag strip is not the street, so I'm probably not going to be able to push my bike that hard until I get some seat time behind me.

You'll have a blast. Racing and digging for tenths is extremely addictive.

Seriously...wtf is the difference if you buy a power commander or buy a flash? Both cost the same...both squeeze out a couple extra hp...one can remove the top speed limiter...one is easier for the average person to change and adjust...the ecu can be super easy to remove and install...not everybody can install their own PC...so why is it a waste of $400 for a flash? It's still gonna cost you an easy $400 for a power commander. The overall effect is about the same sans a few small tuning differences. To maximize the effectiveness of a new pipe or other engine performance modifications you need one or the other.

* Last updated by: nasty on 9/18/2015 @ 7:40 AM *

Nasty is right, and the flash may remove the "safety mode" (don't want to debate this)
where as the PCV won't .......

If you have a good flash, most people that are just street riders, won't need a PCV,

Just my opinion, don't want to debate this with anyone.

Ride on, and be safe ....

It's still gonna cost you an easy $400 for a power commander.

guess that makes the $240 I paid from motomummy a really good deal.

Thats taking into account of a dyno tune.