Thanks again, guys. I am going to keep working on my skill level. Its rather fun, but cna also be a bit tense at times.......LOL

ANother question, I noticed the Z1000 I traded off for the 14R was a good cornering bike, but didn't really take it to the curves and twisting roads often enough to see what a bike like that could really do (nor was I skilled enough to really test it, anyway LOL)

Question:

Is the 14R really that much at a hinderance on the corners than the liter bikes, or is only somewhat at a disadvantage? I imagine a skilled rider on the 14R could corner pretty well........certianly not as well as the same rider on a liter bike, but is the discrepancy really as wide as most seem to think?

Given the same skill level rider on each bike........... Sure, our bike is heavier and has a longer wheelbase, but couldn't those disadvantages be minimized with a rider that is used to the bike's size and wieght, and adjusts how he handles it on corners, accordingly?

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/8/2013 @ 9:11 PM *

Yup.To a point however.Physics cannot be cheated.Even if it 'feels' like a 'lighter' bike...that doesn't change the reality of it.Even if a skilled rider can whip one through the curves...that doesn't mean it can't or won't reach the limits of physics for THAT bike.Eventually it will...good rider or not.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/8/2013 @ 9:41 PM *

The 14 is a tour/sport bike. The liter bikes are race replica. High foot pegs, narrow crank widths. Lots less weight to send in a corner. Whereas the heavier bike has a weight disadvantage 'and' a power to weight ratio disadvantage. See how the rr can pass or keep up with the R? Before the R it would smoke the 14. So that takes HP and the torque is more geared for the 14's performance.

Yes, the skilled rider will whip the average rider on a liter bike.
Yes, the skilled rider will dive into the corners harder because of the ground clearance.

The skill level is to ride slow, take entries slow. Catch yourself bliping phantom rpms if you are not shifting to match. It's one move that does not make one smooth but a distraction search for, or you keep scratching your balls, rubbing your nose, flipping your hair back. Same ideo's you need to catch yourself doing once at high speed. Less moves, less movement, smoothings out.

I have been applying all this input, and I can feel I am improving. Coming out of the corners is starting to feel especially smooth and more in-control.

I do, however, need to stop leaning against the bike's lean when I swing too wide. I also found that I mistakenly chopped off the throttle mid turn after I was already into my acceleration, instead of maintaining a steady throttle on and around.
But I am getting there. Becoming less stressful and a tad bit more natural feeling.
Thanks for the input, guys. Much appreciated.

Mmmmm. Survival Reaction (SRs) #1 and #2, all in the same message:

#1: On-then-Off the Gas, and
#2: Too Tight on the Bars (causes "swinging wide", as well as other symptoms).

... by Keith Code, "Twist of the Wrist II".

Keep learning, studying,... practicing! Bravo, good for you...

Thank you, and yes, those natural responses we have are really an innate sense of trying to do what we really feel is the way to best avoid the potential oncoming bad situation.

But as the text you stated says, while we must subconsiciencly (sp?) think that is the way to deal with the upcoming potential bad situation, those responses are what will PUT is in a bad situation. Hard to break a natural reflex, I gotta admit. But I am in no hurry, and am rather enjoying the learning process. A sense of accomplishment comes when you can see and experience, for yourself, that these methods actually work, inspite of our natural resonses telling us to do otherwise.

I did feel my back tire slide a slight bit the other day, though. Not sure what the cause was, but I know I was not going too fast, nor leaning too hard (don't have to worry about the leaning too far, as I've still got some decent chicken strips........ LOL)
But can a bike this big and heavy be leaned around a corner to where you have nor more chicken strips? I am not concerned about getting rid of them, as I just want to improve and enjoy the learning process, but I was just curious if anyone can actually lay this beast over far enough to where your tire makes contact all the way to that lip on the tire.

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/12/2013 @ 9:27 PM *

"But can a bike this big and heavy be leaned around a corner to where you have nor more chicken strips?"...yup.

All of the above is good advice. I would also say to invest in a track day at a track near you. A lot safer to test your limits, you can get suspension setup help cheap and instruction . You'll be surprised at how well the big girl can handle. It will also help you alot on the street. Afer doing a few track days i've found that i'm able to process things faster, and ride at more controlled pace on the street easier.

"did feel my back tire slide a slight bit the other day, though..."

ZX14MAN64, Do you have the stock tire on there ? I forgot what younare running, if so, that may be the reason you felt the slip, they are pretty good tires, but I have a feeling, if you put a different tire on, that that "slip" may go away ....

These Dunlops...Sportmax Streetsmart 1's are very good tires.I'm gonna keep using these for a while.VERY good grip and warmup.

Blkcasper,
(great name, by the way)...
The track is where it is at, you really need to take your 14 to ring it out. I am whoring a place right now...

Green my boy is running the Angle ST and raves, I think next tire, Pirelly Angel GT for sure bro!

Not an expert or anything but heres my 2 cents worth . The new 14r has a totally different feel entering corners especially at highers speeds than the 07 i had. I couldnt quite put my finger on what was different. Then my friend who still has a 07 rode my bike and said the bike doesnt have the same push over and fall in to the corner as his. basically the bike is stiffer on entry requiring more effort to turn in. he suggested checking sag. I agree with fall in , our 07s fell into the corners and you used the power to pull through the apex and out nice smooth and quick. I wann get this 14r to work like that.

Candy, what you describe is what is different about the bike. They changed the neck position [rake/trail] and extended the rear is my guess? It's not going to come back handling like the '07 no matter howhatrick you try.

You went from drop steer to push steer. Drops drops and in control? No. Push to steer? Now you're in control.

You could try firming up your suspension a bit...see how that feels?

64, When you open the throttle, it's that one cylinder that begins to break loose, the other rpms follow. Think of it going a little slower. Lets use a h-d twin. It fires at the front and fires at the rear. Sustained throttle, you are watching smooth input, steady pulses all even and gliding away.

When you open the throttle, it is that next pulse that takes in that extra gulp of fuel, that extra pound of power pushing the piston down on that opened throttle and that gulp broke the tire loose is one cylinder. Think about it. It's one cylinder braking the tire loose as a goose on a billiard table.

That one cylinder exploding, the hand with the throttle plate still open, the speed of the cylinders firing off; you have yet to feel the tire break loose [and then], oh there it is, and you lift breaking the chain reaction of the balls banging like the very first cylinder, is wait for the next one to come along at the same throttle opening that initiated the first one. There is your wheel spin in the slowmo of it.

That much power to the ground makes me run down the haul like a dog with his hind legs up in the air and the front paws pulling him down the hall. I see WOT you mean ass I get that feeling when that happens to me too. Brings the dog out in me. I like lying to and next to darear and whisper, 'Who dat? What's dat? Go get it!'

http://gifs.gifbin.com/052009/1242138450_dog_on_a_trampoline.gif
http://www.wimp.com/dogtrampoline/

You could try firming up your suspension a bit...see how that feels?

F1 cars have the front end looking like this: /____\ :Standard cars look like this [___]. What you are saying is put a shock setting to it and shading! The bike went the other way is the rack/trail angle is what you are saying will happen. That'sounds like a sitter downer... I'm asking you how, or why you did not think this out? You came up with that conclusion? That's abstracthatsays difference, Mr. Shocked!

So how is your morning wake up call? I can raise-lower-firm up / this angle wit ha shock. I am not shocked you are going to raise and lower this angle [ and it will steer to dissaint gonna happen bud. It's all how the which side of the bed you get out of.

It's the abstract, grn, it's all about the abstract wit me.

Well...the more 'plush' it is(softer)...the more it's going to....how can I say this....'need' more force to get it to do what I'm asking.The new design is a given...you can't alter that..(well,you could)but you don't need to(IMO).I think....the firmer settings allow the whole suspension to react/not react quicker...time vs space(travelled).That's what I'm talking about.That's what the 'firmer' settings are there for.A lot depends on what speeds a guy is normally riding at.For daily commute...or 'regular' riding...the quickness of the suspension to react/or not react is not as important.But at higher speeds,and transitions...you don't want the suspension to be lagging behind the 'moment'.And you don't want excessive chassis movement going on at speed.Things need to be quicker...rebound,compression...they need to react and settle quicker.That's my take on it...????It does say in the manual..."for higher speeds...da da da"...

IDK..I can feel a difference in my steering inputs with it firmed a bit,and softened...I ride normally a shade faster than 70 usually...and the steering and such does feel quicker and lighter with a firmer setting...

Your description of the 'new' rake/trail is spot on.It IS different...and the inputs ARE different...subtle but different.Course,the differences are pretty subjective.But there IS a bottom line..and this bike has a different way of handling.

I'd say...try it with softer and firmer settings both...see how it feels.May as well....it can always be returned to 'std' settings or whatever.Adding or removing weight will affect this bike pretty noticeably.So you have to consider that as well.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/4/2013 @ 8:31 AM *

LOL, grn, it's a bar yank, not firm up my ride. If you don't see it, I can't get you there. I'm going to sit down on this one I'm done.

I mean...what is the one biggest 'complaint' concerning the 14?Steering.Dialing it in with the stock units.The new model is IMO...quicker at turning...in spite of the weight increase.It's a bit more stable in straight line running as well...lengthened.Raked.The force(s) used to steer with this bike are....well...it may feel 'harder'...but IMO...the angles of input are as you say....I get much better cornering feel if I'm tucked lower in the saddle and all,which changes my bar input angles.From my torso.The bike hasn't changed...only my angle of push.I'd say it just takes some 'experimenting' with your riding position and such to find the optimum spot for your own style of riding.The bike will handle better/worse depending on where you are in relation to the rake/'push' factor.

This bike IMO is very sensitive to speed/handling characteristics.It does take time to find the right combo for each owner.It's not just pushing or pulling either...rider position on this bike is very important for optimum handling...it takes some time to dial this bird in.Getting used to the 'new' feel takes some riding time.And lots of trying different things.Not just suspension settings.

I know HUB you have your way of seeing it...sa'll cool...and you're correct in your assessments.I only offer MY thoughts(from my riding experience so far with this new bike).We're all having a different riding experience here...and a different way of feeling this bike.

You know it's gonna feel 'different' depending on what kind of curves/turns you're in.Speed,sharpness...the whole deal.It will respond differently than the earlier models.It just will.I can't say it takes more to turn with this bike in sharp quick twisty roads like the Dragon or Mulholland.My roads are not as extreme as those(not most anyway).These curves here allow you to have 'longer' input feel than the quick sharp twisties.And there's plenty of opportunities to make adjustments to inputs in these turns here.Not that they aren't challenging...they are...but I think the speeds are higher with these kind of curves...which will change the characteristics of the chassis.So trying to 'explain' 'feel' without actually riding it is pretty hard.It's a heavier bike...so naturally going 'slower' in sharp corners is gonna feel 'harder' to get it to comply.And the way a guy moves around on the seat in a turn makes a big difference in how this bike corners.The CG is lower for one thing.So that in itself changes the feel while cornering.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/4/2013 @ 9:12 AM *

Twist the Wrist

* Last updated by: jasonc32amg on 6/4/2013 @ 9:44 AM *

Yup...most excellent.Thanks.

In regards to my comments above...if your suspension is not set up for you and your riding style....it won't work as well.You have to figure out where you spend most of your time riding...stylewise.And go from there.It may be a compromise on settings...depending.But you can find a good medium,even optimum if you work at finding it for yourself.You have to try different riding scenarios before you actually get a 'grip' on how the machine is responding in varied environments.If you set it up for 'track day'...and never go to the track...but roll on the street...it may never suit you.Or...it may...depending on what kind of 'street' you're doing your riding on.You have to find the 'feel' of what you're trying to do.For your particular weight and style.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/4/2013 @ 9:00 PM *

Green, adjusting suspension to how your ride (most of the time) and your weight...etc! I agree fully bro!

Great stuff, brothers. I don't agree with all of the responses but I love the passion that you have for cornering. Most accidents happen on twisties so becoming more skilled on them is literally a life saver. And it doesn't matter what type bike you ride.

My primary advice for new riders (anyone really) is to SLOW DOWN until you are comfortable on the bike and twisties. Leave your ego at home. Slowing down allows you to practice good/safe riding technique under much less stress. As you pile on the miles, you will become a much better rider. The other is buy a book or two on cornering sport bikes. Twist of the Wrist is good one but there are others. Digest and practice everything the pros tell you. Those guys know what they are talking about. Put ego aside and LEARN from the best. Ride the correct way from day one.

Lastly, as many have said - setting up the suspension for your weight and riding style makes a ton of difference. My bike turns much easier than when I was riding it with the factory settings. It's a joy to ride.

Take care and keep it on two. Summer is here so let's have some fun.

+1. Great stuff.

May I offer a note of sincere congratulations to both Hub and Grn.

I get the feeling that they both praticed remarkable restraint and tolerance of each other's views. What a difference tolerant dialogue has made to this site.

My opinion, and it's really just my opinion, that they're *both* right. I support Hub's view that this cycle requires more muscle than a liter bike, given a set of turning dynamics. I also support Grn's view that the turn is in the dynamics of the conditions.

Smile fellas, you're both right!

I especially like CurveZilla's advice. Those thought patterns during my "training wheels" days certainly saved my bacon from... well, bad stuff from happening. Not that those training days are over for me, but I dont mind being reminded.

So I'm having lunch with my long time sponsor/buddy. We are talking racing crashes and residuals, meaning, the coming back of there of [the heavy] damage done to one's body. And there was one thing he pointed out and it seems to be the missing puzzle, but this line game, or apex game, or going fast game is all about how he said it was that, "it has to come to you."

And he continued to say that if you keep rushing at it, it's going to bite you. So you have to take your time, relax, it's eventually going to click was the conversation. And then a racing trick that was worth buying lunch most of the time, because it is priceless what he's been telling me we go HA lunch'inn.