I am a track school instructor. I've been instructing at multiple race tracks in Washington State for three years, with nearly 10,000 miles of track time in addition to well over 100,000 miles of street riding on nearly 30 different motorcycles. I've tried to learn from some of the best and fastest in the area, and pass what little I could absorb on to my customers.

I do not race, nor am I the fastest guy out there. My lap times and riding techniques, however, are decent enough to be well within top 10-20 on any given race day.

To put a finer point on what the educated riders here have been hinting at with you, I'd say I'm well qualified in telling you that you're full of shit, Danno. Again, you're muddying the waters with other issues. Variable management and hazard mitigation are all part of every ride, track or street. The street certainly has more variables, but with proper training you can manage those variables far more adeptly than with street miles alone.

Your anecdotal, "look how fast I was going, that's why brakes are bad" evidence is pithy at best. You might think you're fast with your buddies, but judging by the embarrassing video that you posted above, I'd say you need to hook up with some fast riders. You shouldn't even need brakes when you're running an AARP approved pace like that.

Go get some track time. It helps EVERYONE, regardless of age, experience, skill or machine. When you're there, they might even teach you how to use those brakes that you so despise.

I think I'm using to much engine braking. Use very little brake. But my main issue is the rear end pogoing me all over the place.

That sounds like the way I ride. I would like to brake more into corners too.

I can only speak for the gen1 but if you ride it hard enough, the tail will lift up just a bit and slide around as you enter a corner. Mine will, anyway but it has lost a lot of weight from stock. The tail slither happens from brakes and even hard engine decel but only at the track, I can't ride it that hard on the street. What saved the day was lowering the tire pressure but that is something I don't care to do on the street. It doesn't work too well unless the tires get real warm and stay warm.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/24/2014 @ 1:10 PM *

TrailBoss has it. Starts with correct suspension setup and then it takes the understanding to actually use it. To maintain that actual fast pace the brakes not only help set entrance speed they plant the chassis and help manage the transitional forces at play. The smoooooooth two finger front brake 'set-in' before that apex dip, without it, it's allllll slow. Smooth finger pressure to the timing point, to the deep dip, as the hand rolls open and feeds the beast....
Just my 2c.

* Last updated by: Cblast on 6/24/2014 @ 3:07 PM *

And when we are talkin suspension set-up, I can't stress this enough, a bike set up for hard cornering with ur ass cheek off and ur knee out and your eyes ahead, is COMPLETELY different than a bike set up for comfort on the commute to coffee. That's why the experienced among stress it starts with correct suspension and geometry. Once dialed the commensurate corner speed given back by relieved lean angle, and correct apex braking set up points, is WAYYYY higher. Smoothness is key of course. But the ABC's of disassembling that corner into its components always applies.

... when you're running an AARP approved pace like that.

"I'm hella fast on the streetz, bro,"
Trying to figure out where you got that. Do you work for Fox News?

What's Fox News have to do with this ?

Well, as long as I'm stepping on toes...

"What's Fox News have to do with this?"

I believe Danno was implying that, much like Fox News, my information was both inaccurate and largely fabricated to further my heavily biased agenda.

I believe Danno was implying that, much like Fox News, my information was both inaccurate and largely fabricated to further my heavily biased agenda.

Oh, in that case it should have been CNN and MSNBC .....

I think I see where this is going. :)

I didn't read all the comments but I believe that the two parties are not talking about the same thing. Also it depends of the roads. I'm lucky here to have it both ways. We have roads where somebody not as prudent as myself could cruise at 100 mph and taker sweepers at 90-130 mph. No use for brakes here, unless you're bombing the straight at 160 mph. We also have tight stuffs, going down/up decreasing riding turns etc. Obviously those are more fun and you have to use your brakes! I didn't watch Danno vid in its entirety but those are wide open sweepers.

This Guy Uses His Brakes

At the end of the day braking is a fine art. At the beginning, riders shouldn't rely on it to get bailed out of their mistakes but once you graduate to a certain level, you have to depend on them. When I'm gelling with the bike, I can consistently get the rear wheel in the air. Now I wish I could drop it sideways and send the front end looking for the apex but I'm getting ahead of myself lol

This guy uses his brakes too !

Marc Marquez Braking !

Glad this thread got bumped again. It must be about the fourth time I've read it in it's entirety. Each time, I get something new or different from it. Maybe that is because each time I read it my riding has progressed a little and I understand it a little better. I don't chime in because I still consider myself as a novice with so much to learn. Even after 33 years of riding. When I'm entering a corner under brakes, I just can't get the feeling that the bike is turning in better than when I coast into one and get on the gas early. It always feels like the bike is wanting to stand up, and forcing it in will result in an unspectacular front end tuck. Any advice on this? Is it set-up, tire pressure, technique?

"look how fast I was going, that's why brakes are bad"

Again you put words in my mouth I never said. Probably because you are too insecure to admit your racer advice might not be the best thing for a street rider who is just learning how to handle his machine.

All the in formation you put forth was way too much for anyone to process when they are just trying to improve their experience and not be a wanna-be racer boy like you.

Riding on the track and riding on the street, especially on unfamiliar roads are tow totally different things. I have ridden with many track-day queens like yourself and none have impressed me with their supposed skills. Of the two fastest people I hae ridden with, pone is a former AMA roadracing champion and the other has never been on a track. The second guy is faster on the street, mostly because the racer guy gets his ya-yas out on the track and rides like grampaw on public roads. Either one would blow you into the weeds.

Ask the original poster if he can do all the things you suggest. I think it's better to learn how to be smooth and then add speed as you prefer instead of screwing the throttle, mashing the brakes and pretending you're fast.

* Last updated by: Danno on 6/24/2014 @ 6:07 PM *

they might even teach you how to use those brakes that you so despise.

What a fucking moron.

I believe Danno was implying that, much like Fox News, my information was both inaccurate and largely fabricated to further my heavily biased agenda.

No I'm implying I never said several of the things you "quote" me on. If you can find those words, or the the words you attribute to me in any of my posts I apologize. Otherwise you are just another whiny fuck who puts words in peoples mouths either because they don't understand what was said or are too ignorant to care.

Just like the comment about the "brakes I so despise" what a load of ignorant bullshit. Just reminded me of Fox News.

Oh, in that case it should have been CNN and MSNBC .....

Fuck Ronald Reagan.

* Last updated by: Danno on 6/24/2014 @ 6:22 PM *

I did notice the bike falls into and seems to fluidly flow into a corner now that I've got new pilot powers on it. They are supposed to wear out fast but seem to really be good cornering tires. Nice peak to the tire which lends well to cornering

Thanks again for the riding tips, guys. Really helps.

Angry little fella, aren't ya?

I'm not advocating race-paced riding in the streets. I'm stating that you might not poo-poo the techniques and skills that can be gleaned at the track, as they lend themselves to a much higher level of proficiency on the street. And perhaps prior to going on your angry man rages, you should attempt to experience the training that I'm talking about. I think you'll find that most track riders do slow down in the street, because they've seen a limit at the track that is impossible to reach on public roads. There's no point pushing that hard with so many variables when you've already been there.

I really like the track-queen dig, though. That's usually what I hear from arrogant street riders that don't like having their riding technique critically analyzed and found wanting. I put far more miles on my bikes on public roads than I do at the race track. I ride in all weather, at all times of day, and certainly don't need my "street cred" questioned by some half-assed squid. You may interpret my criticism of your advice as elitist, but I assure you it's simply me trying to prevent bad information from propagating. Get some training. Ride outside your comfort zone. Provide a positive, educated contribution to our community. We already have enough back road warriors out there who can't ride.

Regarding my quotes... Clearly they were satirical in nature, given that they were paraphrasing the horse shit you're peddling to a noob. I'd think as a liberal you'd have been smart enough to pick up on that. No one's perfect, I guess. I do agree with your statement of "Fuck Ronald Reagan." though. See how that quote was different?

Fellas, let's give Ron a break.

@SweetFa
When you are hanging that butt cheek off and you see the corner entrance comin and ur smoothly braking, that push on the inside bar that gently pushes against the brakin forces is the stabilization we are seeking. It's in fine degrees. Then you see ur apex and speed is comin down and you look up ahead through and drop that brake and hit that dip as you roll that throttle and let the bike find its way to your vision line as you force feed the torque...

let's give Ron a break

Hahahahahahahahaha!

That was pretty funny

Anyone see a thread about cornering the ZX14R here somewhere?? lol

Ok back on topic. Whether or not you use your brakes or not just remember your tires can only give you 100 percent. If your using 90 percent of your tires potential trying to slow down for a corner that only leaves you 10 percent left to turn/lean with. So get most of if not all of your braking over with before you reach the corner so you have plenty of useable tire for maximum lean. Same idea for the rear tire coming out of a corner, if your using most of your tires potential for leaned over traction then don't jump on my gas and expect the tire to hold. As the bike becomes more upright the more traction your tire will have for accelerating. Sounds easy enough, but even the best riders on the planet struggle with it, so many variables that can change immediately and without warning. I think that's why Danno is saying to not fuck with your brakes to much. Just get the old fat girl up to speed and enjoy the ride.

* Last updated by: wfozx14 on 6/24/2014 @ 9:02 PM *

You know, I don't know what's going on between you guys and I don't normally "Chime" in like this but I can tell you that for whatever "Experts" you guys are claiming to be you're losing credibility as such from me the more you guys leave the topic to jab at one another. I've been around this stuff since I was 6 years old "Racing" and I have lifelong friends that range from National Champions to AMA Hall of Famers, with several friends that are currently racing everything from AMA Sportbike to the British Superbike series. Honestly, I've NEVER heard not ONE of them jab at one of their piers like that. I've never even been able to coax one of them into it. Maybe that's just another level, I don't know, but seriously, take it up somewhere else. Unless you guys are gonna be able to meet at a track somewhere and clear this up it's NEVER gonna go anywhere other than just a bunch of keyboard insults. I believe you're both probably pretty good riders but you sure aren't representing it as such by doing that stuff. Let's be helpful and understand that ZX14MAN "Humbled" himself enough and respected the riders on this forum enough to reach out for some advice. I HAVE been around...trust me. I've never seen or heard a track day instructor take on that attitude with ANYONE in all my years, much less take it that personal. Sorry, if I've offended anyone but...it is what it is and let's just get back on topic and enjoy this with ZX14MAN. I was personally enjoying the thread until...

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