For some here it's a pissin contest...see who has the most whatever.For me...it isn't that at all....I simply want to find out for my own reference how my bike is doing.Nothing more,nothing less.I don't care if it's below or above anyone elses.You have to admit...178 HP from this big motor is not okay...something isn't right...I suspect the dyno operator here.NOT the bike.Two different flashes...virtually same result...weeks apart.Does that sound like flash 'faults' to anyone here?Not to me it doesn't.Especially when this(these) two flashes have put out 200 or more in someone elses bike(s)...with virtually the same mods.Some of us just want to know what our 1441's are producing.

Whatever it's actually putting down...I love riding it...numbers or not.It's NOT running the same as it was a month ago...and that's what really matters...more enjoyment from it.

I'd love to get my bike down to where I could dyno it...with someone who really knows what they're doing.I can EASILY tell it's putting out more power and torque than it ever did prior to the flashes.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 1:54 PM *

Green if you take in account of your elevation, your numbers are par with a 200hp at sea level. Take a 200 HP bike and run it on your dyno and bam she will read 180hp.

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Okay...that sounds okay.I thought so.Just didn't know if anyone else here considered that...I looked up some stuff on Google about elevation and all...and fueling...trying to see if that really was the issue.It seems to be...even the guys at the shop said there could be as much as a 20% drop at this elevation.Which would clearly put my bike up top(200 or so) at sea level.What is confusing though...is C said the sensors are really good at determining the fueling at other than sea level...which I interpreted to mean...the ECU would 'create' the right amount to reach 200 or so here with the flash.I guess that's not the case?I'm probably totally misunderstanding this fueling deal and the bike's ability to maximize the values?Let me ask then...CAN this motor be ECU'd to produce that HP number here?At this level?

If she's running like this now at say 180HP....20% more HP...hard to imagine...but I'd LOVE to have that.Can that be done?

I mean...she's putting out tops 180 now.Here.Mechanically...won't the motor go up another say 20%?It doesn't know it's at 3000 feet.The fueling does...but the motor...or is this something I have to live with(which I can and will).I'm not unhappy at all.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 2:11 PM *

Also, it's making power in a different way, even IF it had close to the peak H.P. Before the flash, it's making the power in a more efficient way ala coming on stronger throughout the powerband, and staying high until it drops off of max hp or torque, I am no expert as you all know! just a thought ....

Not trying to step on ANYONES toes etc .... LOL !

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"Not trying to step on ANYONES toes etc .."...you're not...you're welcome to speak up.

I may be missing the physical properties of the fuel/air/altitude principles here thinking this out.The a/f mixture can only go to so far before things don't work right.Have I reached that limit of the physical laws of nature in my fueling and such?And at sea level let's say...I will feel a pretty good boost from how she feels here?(She's extremely strong here);)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 2:16 PM *

There is less oxygen in the air higher up you go. Air is what makes power. The air is thin thus for also requiring less fuel to combust the mixture inside the cylinders. A naturally aspirated engine can only take in what is available to it. The only way for you to compensate for that loss of 20% is to force air into it by using an air compressor. A turbo charger is an air compressor, it forces more air into the cylinders than what would otherwise have been available to it.

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Okay...I think it's making sense now why NONE of my zx14's were able to climb past 190.At sea level...they most likely would have passed that easily.This makes sense...without bumping up the gearing...she'll never pass 200 up here...now I see it.Sa'll okay...I don't ride around at 190 anyway.But this all makes sense now...thanks you guys for the inputs...also explains why there's no TRACKS around here for a thousand milesLOL!!!!One day I will be down around sea level there....I can wait for my 200 mph target.I have absolutely NO DOUBT this bike will pull over 200 mph...no doubt.Just not up here;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 2:35 PM *

I should rephrase that.
Air is a limiting factor to how much power you can make. Less available air = less power.

* Last updated by: nasty on 9/23/2013 @ 3:25 PM *

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If you could watch a dead, but the unit is on, meaning a dyno, you can see the room breath by the barometer pressure sensor on the screen. So it's all about the room temp, the pressure of the day, sunny, overcast, this makes or breaks molecules being close, sans altitude. Add altitude, you again have to compensate for that variable as you did with the others.

You are all day there waiting for the pressure/temp of the day to change. So does the jetting. It's all about who is expanding, or contracting: for that chemical reaction to flame front ideally. An air molecule when cold is like a person standing next to you and your hand can reach far enough to touch.
Less air would be the person is more at the end of the room. The fuel parts cannot [expand] that far to continue igniting that fluid that is mixed in between the air. Altitude expansion makes a too rich a ratio change, say we used a carburetor. So you have spurts of ignition or hard starting, rough running, too rich a mix caused by too much [time or a space] gap between the next flame front to keep moving along.

Watch this winter when the weather is cold and dry. You'll get shocked a lot. That action is twofold. Cold is wet, right? Good conductor is wet. Cold contracts. So look how close you can get the spark to jump with a cooler with more condensed molecules vs. hot: where the molecules that have expanded farther out. See that better flame front with the static being cooler to [see the molecules] travel in that environment?

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Enter FI. Remember, there is less pressure on the APS [air pressure sensor] under the seat. This is our 02. We have adjusted to the altitude and the IAP [intake air pressure sensor] is sensing less pressure too. YOu are running as if at seal level are the settings. So your bike still rips. Are you at ideal 14.7 sea level, this temp this baro? No, you'd have to plan that day for that dyno run. There is your ideal HP number. So big deal, you are a few ponies off ideal. Just about ever dyno pull is.

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Does anybody want to learn how the ram air effect really works on our bikes, and what is happening inside the air box while this phenomena is in effect?

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Bring that post back, Green!!! That is exactly the type of questions I want you guys asking, I want an honest anything goes round table discussion about ram air. I wanna make you guys think and share what you know about ram air while we get down to the nitty gritty without making it over complicated. I am going to start a new thread on this. Green I would like you to repost that on that thread, please.
Let me give you a hint buddy, you smoked one of the nails on the head, cool air.

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Hmmm...I guess I could try it again...I was assuming the ram effect actually works as a blower of sorts...at higher speeds...but the fuel mix and temps and elevation might not be ideal for it to actually perform as it might at a lower more dense altitude...and the colder air would naturally be condensed more than higher temps...so the cooler...the better.You could get a pretty ignitable mixture going if the conditions were right...and your HP up top at high speed could be significantly increased the faster you went.Around here...that aint gonna happen:(

I was assuming the ram effect actually works as a blower of sorts...at higher speeds

Yes and no, mostly no. This is the more complicated(yet not so complicated) and most misinterpreted aspect of ram air. I'll skip the details on this one for the moment, I want more discussion and questions before going into details.

so the cooler...the better.

EXACTLY Green!!! Most rams airs are designed specifically to be an efficient method of getting cool air to the intake. Cold air intake. We see/take notice of this all the time when the outside temps start to drop. Our ram air helps amplify that extra little boost in power output we are experiencing this time of year! Cool outside ambient air is much more dense than the 130f air sitting under the seat you can feel burning your ass in the summer. An air box that is situated under the seat is sucking in this hot ass burning air, while a ram air is bringing the slightly cooler(power)air from outside instead.

* Last updated by: nasty on 9/23/2013 @ 10:43 PM *

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NOS is cold and dense. Intake tract all pretty just needing a black steel braided line...

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Yes...I was thinking the same thing concerning the ram effect and it's design on this new bike.If you could substitute the condensed cool air being forced into the airbox with NOS...you'd have 'almost' the same effect...course...we know that the NOS creates a chemically usable combustion mix...but the principle I think is still valid...compressed thick air...packed with lots of oxygen molecules entering that throttlebody at particular speeds.

It's truly a masterpiece...what these Kawasaki engineers came up with...the electronics...the light speed computations going on.And adjusting accordingly.Amazing really.

I have a set of Akro Headers coming...just a little gift for my precious;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 12:15 PM *

Dude!!!! Those are gonna be straight sexy!!!

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"So the injection of nitrous oxide into an engine means that more oxygen is available during combustion. Because you have more oxygen, you can also inject more fuel, allowing the same engine to produce more power. Nitrous oxide is one of the simplest ways to provide a significant horsepower boost to any gasoline engine.
Nitrous oxide has another effect that improves performance even more. When it vaporizes, nitrous oxide provides a significant cooling effect on the intake air. When you reduce the intake air temperature, you increase the air's density, and this provides even more oxygen inside the cylinder.
The only problem with nitrous oxide is that it is fairly bulky, and the engine needs a lot of it"

Sounds like RAM EFFECT to me?In a different way of course.Chemically.Pre mixed so to speak.The 'goal' is of course...MORE OXYGEN to work with during combustion.Ram gives you that to a lesser degree.

RAM...'railing air mass'..;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 12:26 PM *

RAM...'railing air mass'..;)

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