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Thread: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??

Created on: 07/12/12 02:42 PM

Replies: 114

Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/15/12 6:11 AM

The 008 just gives the 6th gear signal which gives the fastest sub-plates opening rate that is already in the ECU.... If he pulled his flies before installing it, of course he got nothing from it.... it is marketed towards people who refuse to pull the sub plates and don't want to make any other changes.

Who ever sold it to him did not inform him of what to expect from it.

Cycle world and other mags have tested the 008.... It was hailed as the best $70.00 spent (on a bone stock and unmodified ZX14) at the time of the magazine test.


Ivan



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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privateer


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Location: [random forest]

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 3605

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/15/12 11:08 AM

Ivan sends your ECU to Don Guhl, and he has told Guhl what he wants in the re-flash. The A/F table is probably not changed. He cannot change the Ignition table unless he is assuming all non-dynoed ZX14s run the same. So the Ignition table is probably not changed.

That leaves the secondary butterfly throttle table, which Guhl has been replacing for a long time, since before Ivan sent him stuff to do.

What else do you do, Ivan? This is all instrumented stuff that Guhl does, no secrets. He developed the C14 flash with a fully instrumented bike and the videos got posted to the Concours Owners Group. We can send him an (abc) exhaust system C14's ECU and he can flash it. But if we want the A/F and Ignition table tuned for the bike, it has to go to Don for dyno runs, because that is the only way you can determine what the bike needs in those tables short of real world data logging.

So what else do you do, Ivan? Don't say its proprietary, you aren't doing anything Guhl doesn't already do, and Don has allowed us to instrument his ECUs so we know what they are doing.

Just so you guys know, Dynotronics came onto the COG website and was bragging about their flash, and even said they were the first to decode the KHI ECU. Which may or may not be true. They also refused to discuss the specifics of their flash. After a couple weeks they quit posting and never came back.

None of us are going to take what you say and do it ourselves. If Fred Harmon of COG cannot re-flash his own ECU then none of us can. But before I'd give you money, I'd need to know exactly what changes you were going to make, in no uncertain terms. Because I don't believe in magic.



Living the Gypsy Life

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davesxx01



Joined: 08/02/10

Posts: 44

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/15/12 11:40 AM

Ouch! Damn! What with all this hate all of a sudden?

Someone can simply post up a before and after dyno with torque and all the proof is right there.

Exact details of what block was changed and with what value in the ECU is not needed. His info belongs to him, I'm fine with that.

When I talked to Don, and Ivan, I received basically the same answers. Things were changed in the ECU, that effect different perimeters, If neither one wants me to "see" exactly what block they changed so what. All I know is how the bike feels and performs afterward.

I think it's awesome that Ivan comes on here and gives us as much info as he already has!



Past bikes: '01 CBR1100XX, '06 ST1300, '06 ZX-14, '08 ZX14SE, '09 MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR.
Current bike: '12 ZX14R
Car: '10 VW GTI. APR K04 turbo, Billy Boat exhaust, Uni DSG tune. 313 WHP

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privateer


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Location: [random forest]

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 3605

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 7:28 AM

There is no hate. There is simply a question.


* Last updated by: privateer on 7/16/2012 @ 7:28 AM *



Living the Gypsy Life

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KoflaOlivieri


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Location:

Philadelphia, PA

Joined: 02/17/12

Posts: 1805

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 9:42 AM

I think it's awesome that Ivan comes on here and gives us as much info as he already has!

I agree. The problem is when we have one person with multiple personalities using different names like (Ninjawarrior1244, GixxerJohn, zx14racer, Goldwingmann, ) creating posts like this.

This individual, whoever he is, visits different forums asking what seems like legit technical questions, just to incite flame wars, derailing good discussions for his own entertainment.

Kofla


NINJA ZX-14 MotoVlog

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ninjawarrior1244


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Location:

Daytona Beach, Fl

Joined: 03/27/11

Posts: 262

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 9:54 AM

Then don't read my posts or questions......simple then you can sleep at night and not be so worried about technical questions you may have the inability to understand. Best if you keep your opinions to your self.....opinions are like ass holes everyone has one.....how about yours?

This is my posting if you don't like what people say on it.....keep it to yourself....see if you can act like an adult once in your life.


* Last updated by: ninjawarrior1244 on 7/16/2012 @ 10:16 AM *



There is no second place winner in a gunfight!

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KoflaOlivieri


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Location:

Philadelphia, PA

Joined: 02/17/12

Posts: 1805

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 10:01 AM

The truth hurts.

Kofla


NINJA ZX-14 MotoVlog

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 10:08 AM

Hey kofla im zxracer here and gixxer at bikeland thats it. U shouldnt say shit u have no clue about. U are always riding my ass get a life buddy. Keep my name out of your mouth. I never said anything about u dont say anything about me. Fair enough???


* Last updated by: zx14racer on 7/16/2012 @ 10:11 AM *



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

Joined: 05/02/12

Posts: 790

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 10:13 AM

Goddam man ever once in awhile i'll check the forums and some assclown has to bring up my name. I have got to be famous or something??? Somebody always has to be writing about me. Forget about me move on for god sakes people.



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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DogoZX


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Location:

Location: Location!

Joined: 02/26/09

Posts: 2889

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 10:41 AM

Just so you guys know, Dynotronics came onto the COG website and was bragging about their flash, and even said they were the first to decode the KHI ECU.

That guy is just a distributor for ECUnleashed/Passani... Seems, to me, like he markets "his flash" as his own. Bugs me.



"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” HST

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 982

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 11:06 AM

So does Guhl incorperate a different fuel map into his flash or does he also tell prople that a PC is the best way to go for that?

Guyz I have total faith in Ivan so for me there is no hate and have been reading about Guhl for awhile so it also sounds like he knows what he is doing.

Carry on and remember that while all peoples have assholes there are a select few that are better at being one.



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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davesxx01



Joined: 08/02/10

Posts: 44

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 1:37 PM

If you send your ECU to Guhl, they will call you and tell you what all they can do and ask what exactly you want done. They can include fueling and timing adjustments for a stock, slip on, or full exhaust.
Or, as Ivan suggested, you can just get the regular stuff each offers and also get a PC V for a fine tuned map, which is probably best.



Past bikes: '01 CBR1100XX, '06 ST1300, '06 ZX-14, '08 ZX14SE, '09 MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR.
Current bike: '12 ZX14R
Car: '10 VW GTI. APR K04 turbo, Billy Boat exhaust, Uni DSG tune. 313 WHP

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/16/12 3:28 PM

Guyz I have total faith in Ivan so for me there is no hate and have been reading about Guhl for awhile so it also sounds like he knows what he is doing.

My opinion stands, Ivan & Don = Great team. Complaints will flow in if ,,,,,,,U know. They both Risk more than we ever will as individual consumers.

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Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/17/12 6:54 AM

There are no direct fuel changes in my flash, but because the ECU has it's own logic, when you change some of the things that I have changed, the ECU makes fueling changes by itelf.
I guess this can be interpreted by some either way.

I have a completely recurved ignition map too... much different than others... this is exclusive to me and offers cooler running temps, better fuel mileage and flawless throttle control when combined with my PCV fueling.

BTW... I have given Don Guhl more than he has given me... in fact he has given me nothing.
I told him what I parameters wanted for every area that I wanted changed... I did all my own testing here and came up with all my own results.... And paid $$$ for all of it.

Ivan


* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/17/2012 @ 7:03 AM *



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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ninjawarrior1244


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Location:

Daytona Beach, Fl

Joined: 03/27/11

Posts: 262

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/18/12 10:32 AM

Ivan,

So after all this discussion...please advise us what your ZX14r Customer gets from you, that he does not get from Guhl for the $75.00 extra, you charge over Guhl?



There is no second place winner in a gunfight!

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davesxx01



Joined: 08/02/10

Posts: 44

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/18/12 10:47 AM

Dude, have you not read anything Ivan posted? Please re read his posts.



Past bikes: '01 CBR1100XX, '06 ST1300, '06 ZX-14, '08 ZX14SE, '09 MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR.
Current bike: '12 ZX14R
Car: '10 VW GTI. APR K04 turbo, Billy Boat exhaust, Uni DSG tune. 313 WHP

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Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/18/12 11:13 AM

I have already answered all the questions about this that I'm going to at this point.

Ivan



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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seno


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Location: Lithia, Florida

Joined: 08/31/11

Posts: 592

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 6:22 AM

I have the ECUnleashed flash, anyone local to Long Island,NY that has Guhl or Ivan's? I have access to a dyno Tuesday-Saturday and would love to use the same bike (mine or yours) and swap out ECU's and get some "real" results who's flash makes the best power. Anyone game? There is quite a bit of speculation, and if you listen to everyone "selling" a flash.... Well of course they have the best one. Let's get some real results posted, with SAE numbers... Different flashes same bike....



2015 30th Anniversary Edition 14R #250-> Brock's CT Ceramic Coated, Ivan's ECU Flash V2 & Map, Block off plates, HM Strain gauge quickshifter, GPR Damper, Spiegler lines, Muzzy's Sliders, Pazzo levers, Rizoma Next Fluid Tanks, DDM Ultra 5500K HID's Low & Hi, DB Windscreen, Cox Radiator guard, gold titanium bolts... too many to list at this point

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Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 6:47 AM

Why don't you just come to my shop?... we can dyno it and you can ride them both...


Ivan



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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KoflaOlivieri


KoflaOlivieri's Gravatar

Location:

Philadelphia, PA

Joined: 02/17/12

Posts: 1805

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 6:57 AM

I have already answered all the questions about this that I'm going to at this point.

Why don't you just come to my shop?... we can dyno it and you can ride them both

Excellent suggestion Ivan, but if you read my first comment on this thread, there's your answer. Thank you for your well thought out responses, and sharing your expertise with this forum.

Kofla


NINJA ZX-14 MotoVlog


* Last updated by: KoflaOlivieri on 7/19/2012 @ 7:01 AM *

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seno


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Location: Lithia, Florida

Joined: 08/31/11

Posts: 592

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 6:58 AM

We can do that too, busy Saturday morning? Your only like 45 minutes away... Same location as 6 years ago?



2015 30th Anniversary Edition 14R #250-> Brock's CT Ceramic Coated, Ivan's ECU Flash V2 & Map, Block off plates, HM Strain gauge quickshifter, GPR Damper, Spiegler lines, Muzzy's Sliders, Pazzo levers, Rizoma Next Fluid Tanks, DDM Ultra 5500K HID's Low & Hi, DB Windscreen, Cox Radiator guard, gold titanium bolts... too many to list at this point

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Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 7:10 AM

I'm on 9W in Congers... I'm not sure when you last came to see me.
Saturday would be fine.

Try to be there before 11:00, I only work 1/2 a day....and come by yourself please.


Taken from my website:

Ivan's Rockland County Motorcycle
175 N. Route 9W - Unit #1
Congers, NY, 10920

Phone: 845-268-1212
Fax: 845-268-8291

Shop Hours:
Mon - Fri 10am-6pm
Sat 10am-2pm - Eastern Time



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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seno


seno's Gravatar

Location: Lithia, Florida

Joined: 08/31/11

Posts: 592

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 7:14 AM

Its a date, I'll shoot for 10... Will be nice to say hello and shake your hand again, see if you remember me.



2015 30th Anniversary Edition 14R #250-> Brock's CT Ceramic Coated, Ivan's ECU Flash V2 & Map, Block off plates, HM Strain gauge quickshifter, GPR Damper, Spiegler lines, Muzzy's Sliders, Pazzo levers, Rizoma Next Fluid Tanks, DDM Ultra 5500K HID's Low & Hi, DB Windscreen, Cox Radiator guard, gold titanium bolts... too many to list at this point

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Ivan



Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 112

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 7:26 AM

Very cool !!



www.ivansperformanceproducts.com

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 982

RE: Guhl or Ivan Flash, which one is the best for the 14r??
07/19/12 10:33 AM

Ivan are you only flashing the 2012 models or is there a flash for the 2006 thru 2011?

Thanks -- Bobby



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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