Green, did you watch the video???
I can only assume you did not.

Marquez comes around the corner on the outside at full race pace and race body position.
Rossi comes around the same corner on the inside line with the bike and himself much more upright and at anything but race pace. He is more intent on eyeing Marquez up, sits the bike up even more, makes Marquez do the same, deliberately takes an even wider line into Marquez which Marquez is not expecting, lines him up and kicks him off!
Look at pic 3. Rossi's bike is upright and virtually at zero degrees lean compared to Marquez's bike!
And look at the two riding positions!

Only one rider is racing here, looking through his lines and leaning the bike!
I'll say that again because it is such a key point.
Only one rider is racing here!

The other has a massive red mist across his eyes and commits one of the most disgraceful acts ever seen on a racetrack.

Again, don't take my word for it.
Look at the evidence and the facts contained in the below pics.

And Green, you've never seen a rider overtake around the outside?
Are you saying riders should not attempt this?
And sorry to disappoint you but Marquez does not turn into Rossi.
Rossi turns wide into Marquez.
Take a look.
Rossi doesn't care about the fastest line.
Rossi doesn't care about the quickest speed.
Rossi doesn't care about leaning the bike.
And Rossi no longer even cares about the race at this stage.
Rossi is solely intent on one thing and one thing only.
Looking at Marquez and lining him up for what he is about to do.

It is there for you to see if you just look!

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/1/2020 @ 2:23 AM *

"It there for you and all to see..."

Yeah,I see it.But I don't interpret it the same as you.You say it was a kick.I don't see that.I see a leg moving as a foot slid off a footpeg.From trying to NOT get crushed by a bike and careless rider pushing in.Rossi's ahead.Marquez is somewhat back and moving up.AND contacting a rider in a line.Marquez asked for it.What would YOU do?Hit the brakes and have a bike get tangled up in your bike?Or let off the gas and get the same result?Or try to somehow push that bike over some.
Look at the lean angles when this happens.It's obvious (to me)that Marquez is leaned in more,creating a contact that's very dangerous at those speeds.If Rossi slightly ended up going a bit wide,guess who's gonna get slammed.They both are.Rossi was tryin to not let that happen...IMO.Marquez is already into him at that point.

That set of pics shows nothing.Can't tell what's happening there.But the video of Rossi going inside on that right hander and Marquez dipping in and hitting him as the foot moves out shows it all.Marquez's fault and choice.Shoulda gone a tad wider,or ridden harder before any of that.He deliberately dipped into Rossi.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/1/2020 @ 1:03 AM *

Anyway, one thing that cannot be disputed is Rossi's act culminated in him missing out on his 10th World Championship title to Mr Lorenzo.
It didn't have to be that way but he has no one to blame but himself.

Man that must have stung proper and I'm sure still does.

And with Marquez winning title after title after 2015 with Rossi finishing nowhere in the pack since, karma has been a real painful bitch for VR46.

Not too sure but I think all here might have a very slight inclination on where I stand on this one.
Think I'll now leave it for the Rossi supporters to ignore the presented facts and just blindly defend away.

Not the first time this situation has occurred for Valentino Rossi fans and probably won't be the last...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/1/2020 @ 2:26 AM *

Can't we all just get along ? (sniff)
Everyone knows that Rabat should have won the title.

Mad

Can't we all just get along ? (sniff)
Everyone knows that Rabat should have won the title.

Mad

LOL. "leave it for the Rossi supporters to ignore the presented facts and just blindly defend away".

I don't 'support' either one!Just two riders trying to win without crashing into each other...at least one trying not to anyway;)

Everyone knows that Rabat should have won the title.

Can't we all just get along ? (sniff)

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/2/2020 @ 12:35 AM *

The overhead view shows what happened.

Rossi was attempting to force Marquez to brake by crowding him out of the corner. Rossi was in fact taking the lead again but he knew Marquez was going to come right back underneath him and pass him hard in that corner. So Rossi stopped him from passing. Rossi could have just kept his line right to edge of the track and let Marquez decide to brake or run off. He knew Marquez is not afraid to crash and if he forced him to choose that, that might cause them both to go down. So Rossi pushed him with his foot. Maybe it was something he did on impulse as he saw his plan was going to fail one way or the other.

It all seems very suspicious because of the low speed and the multiple times Rossi turned to look back at Marquez. Rossi was hoping doing something unconventional would work but of course, he was dealing with someone who doesn't know fear and does not give up.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/1/2020 @ 12:42 PM *

Hooray!!!!
At last...

What I would have enjoyed seeing was Rossi forcing Marquez off the track and then keeping pace with him while he was on the grass to prevent him from coming back on the track. The other riders would have caught up and passed them both. Rossi and Marquez come in last place, Marquez still off the track at the finish line. That would have been awesome!

All a part of using your brain to get your opponent in a weak position.Marquez bit right into it.Anyone tried to change a bike's direction by simply leaning over or using a leg to somehow change the momentum where it'll turn in?It's VERY difficult to do.Without some countersteer.Granted it can be done at lower speeds somewhat.They were movin pretty good there.You really think Rossi thought he could 'kick the bike away'?I don't.Marques dived into him.He was the one that created the impact.Not Rossi.I think Marquez hit him,the bars contacted the bike,and the countersteer(from the impact) threw him off line and into the grass.With as little leg 'force' he applied to Marquez,that wouldn't have sent him off line.It was his frontend that hit rossi as he tried to force rossi further inside to give him room to stay in his line(marquez).Instead of having to slow up.That's what it looks like to me.Marquez screwed up.He should have slowed slightly then dipped in under rossi.Then he'd have had a clear shot at the apex.This was a Marquez fail.Totally.

Rossi wasn't 'pushing'...Marquez was,and failed.If ya can't see that,try putting the personalities aside and just look at the whole move.It was dumb.Yer not gonna hit the apex sooner by passing someone on the outside,unless they're really moving slower.They weren't.Rossi had the advantage.Marquez came up with the wrong move.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/2/2020 @ 12:01 AM *

Green, you are a good bloke and I respect you.

But maybe take another look when the drugs wear off.

"So Rossi stopped him from passing."...nope.Rossi didn't stop him from passing.Marquez stopped himself from passing.By trying to dip in when he did.It cost him the race.Emotional rider making an irrational decision.The clear path was behind and under Rossi.Plain and simple.He didn't consider that well before that turn.Rossi would have(and I've watched plenty of Rossi videos and that's exactly what he usually does.Dips in and under instead of trying to force an inside rider to move more inside. He was leading already.Marquez IMO is no Rossi.Nor does he think like Rossi.That's experience.That's why he won so many titles.Marquez is an excellent rider.But he failed this test.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/2/2020 @ 12:16 AM *

Yannih.You've got a clear dislike for rossi...that's fine.But look at the move of yer boy there.Even YOU wouldn't try a pass like that.You'd dip in UNDER and below.Not try to do that with a bike right next to ya.I mean,c'mon.

Marquez IMO is no Rossi.

Since Marc Marquez joined MotoGP in 2013, he has won the World Championship 6 times in 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.
Since Marc Marquez joined MotoGP in 2013, Valentino Rossi has won the World Championship 0 times.
His last race win was back in 2017 FFS!

Green, you are digging a mighty big hole for yourself...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/2/2020 @ 3:36 AM *

I don't get how you 'see' Rossi 'not leaning as much as Marquez.That first pic.Who's got more lean angle?I mean...look at it.ROSSI has more.It's right there.And to try and say Rossi is 'standing the bike up' is nonsense.You can't tell by those stills if that's true at all.So he's looking at Marquez.He ALWAYS looks at other rider positions.This isn't something new and devious.He's a racer.That's his way.Like sticking his leg out in corners.That's him.If Marquez chose to stay where he was with this outside forcing and passing deal,that's on him.

Look.I don't religiously follow these guys.Doesn't matter who won what when or how many times.Not to me.We're talking about a collision and who caused what.That's what this discussion is about.And I don't see Rossi creating it.I see a Marquez making a poor decision.That's all.Now did rossi plan this, or know he would do this.I don't think so.The situation was there,and they both made their choice in that moment.Blaming rossi to me is VERY close minded when we at least see something different.

Blaming rossi to me is VERY close minded when we at least see something different.

Green, from now on you can call me yanni "VERY close minded" h...

Uh...guys, we're talking about something that happened 5 YEARS ago.
Let it go
Let it go
They liked to go slow.....

Mad

Haven't seen the vid in awhile, but if I look at the photos above I can only look at with track experience. Learning the sport at a late age I can think of a few basic rules... look way out ahead, do not turn around to look. I broke that head turn rule and lost a place breaking concentration. My personal experience is, if I can follow someone, he/she is slowing me down.

Looking back at it I present; the head turn; the concentration; and slower rider. Though it is part of equation or chemistry involved, lets leave that off to the side for now.

1. Concentration:
Where is the hand up?
Why so many head turns?
Why was not the head turned once and give way or return to your line?
Racing foul on Rossi with all those options, IMO.

2. Head Action:
Why that little runt.
Turf you, you.

3. Slower Rider:
The kid came up on a slower rider.
Slower rider did not except the chemistry that was about to occur.
Slower rider more or less likes to play bump and run.
The wakeup call of the new kid on the block so block his ass, he's running with the spoiled brat that's too old for the sport, cough, big boys.

No matter what the reason for the kick, kicking isn't allowed in a boxing match and it shouldn't be allowed in a motorcycle race. It just isn't done.

Lowest thing I've ever seen on two wheels Rook.
Add that to Rossi blaming Marquez for his own short comings in 2015 and I just don't forget unsportsmanlike behaviour to that level as most others do.

***Warning***
yannih rant.

You all probably don't follow or care for cricket.

I played at a fairly high level for 22 years.
It's one of Australia's national games.

The Australians were always traditionally known as very hard BUT FAIR competitors on the national stage since the inception of the first National squad in 1868.
That is until recently when the Australian Cricket Captain Steve Smith allowed cheating to occur under his watch and was caught red handed on a televised match.

In one foul swoop, Australian cricket lost it's treasured reputation and will never again regain it.

I don't care how good you are or were at your sport.
I don't care if it's your own countryman who you revere.
I don't care if it's your first offence or not.
I don't care how sorry or remorseful you are after the fact.

You cheat at sport, and you are a low dog.

Reputation is everything.
Dignity is everything.
Trustworthiness is everything.
And good sportsmanship is everything.

By knowingly allowing it to happen, The Australian Cricket Captain (a position so important to Australians that it is considered to be the unofficial second Prime Minister of Australia) destroyed Australian crickets reputation, dignity and trustworthiness forever now giving Australia the reputation of an unsportsmanlike Team.

I will never ever forgive the the Captain and the two other national Australian players that were involved even though most of the general public already have.
(Should all just forgive Lance Armstrong and move on?)

And for good or for bad thats just the way I am.
I call a spade a spade and move on.

We all make mistakes.
As I have said previously I make more than most.
But there are innocent mistakes, and there are intentional mistakes that show a persons real character.

In my opinion, life is way too short to cater for these kinds of people and they should always be called out for what they really are...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/8/2020 @ 1:45 PM *

If I recall, Rossi said extending his foot was a defensive move. If it was, that sort of defensiveness shouldn't be allowed. Mike Tyson was banned from boxing for biting.

9 different winners so far. Without MM to narrow down the odds, it's now a hard game to play. Mir is the Man! Did you see the lap times? Consistent average was what, .02? I strive for Rins. So smooth. Miller is the darkhorse and I was rooting for him to cut thru the field... oh well.

I'm just guessing at this but I think for a sport like this, you are at your peak at age 32. Dovi is 34 and you can see the fire is no longer flaming. Pol came into his own about now with that ride, or say the whole year so far. He's prime for the Honda and better not take a Rossi taking 1 or 2 prime years getting used to the bike.

***SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY SEEN THE RACE***

Amazing Mir!
What a ride and time to pick up your first MotoGP win.
I think its now a 37 point lead in the World Championship with 2 races to go.
Rins doing a brilliant job as well, especially after the injury at the beginning of the season.

Yamaha will never have a better chance than this year to win the Championship with Marquez's absence but they have had a horror season with equipment and to an extent the factory riders.
Ducati are in a similar boat although with better equipment reliability, but the factory riders have under achieved.
Thank goodness Miller gets a factory ride next season.

Which begs the question.
What is the status of Marc Marquez?
Does anyone here know?
Something must be terribly wrong for him not to ride since race 1 of the season.

But generally where there is a loser there is a winner, and it's such a great story for Suzuki who are leading the rider AND manufacturer Championships.
A great result for the Championship and motorcycling world.

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/8/2020 @ 1:43 PM *