maybe I would be too but I know I'd be glad he refused to open his country to the risk of something much worse taking over.

I still don't know why we don't see an influx of Russian immigration to the US if Putin is so bad...or else they'd be running to neighboring countries. That border can't be that tight if someone really wants to leave on foot. Instead you have war refugees wanting in Russia.

Mad, read a dictionary!

Bringing up the discretions of our ancestors from centuries ago is ridiculous. How about the secession of Democrats to form the Confederacy in order to preserve slavery?

And by the way, my ancestors didn't get here till the 20th century, so all that genocide is on you.

alg8er, way to miss the point COMPLETELY...
And since you just admitted your ancestors were immigrants, how about showing us their papers? We want to make sure you all are legal.

Mad

I hate politics. Glad this election is over.

Yeah I don't know why we're still talking about this. It's done. Now we see how good or bad Trump does.

Mad, if you can find a country that wasn't taken over, or had its native population murdered/enslaved by invaders, then maybe you should move there. Then you wouldn't have to carry the guilt of the history of this country. Telling me to read a history book to learn history is another ridiculous statement. Comparing the immigration of the past centuries to today is ludicrous. But since you want to, ask the native americans if they would've blocked immigration if they could have.

alg8eer, you go ahead and justify your position any way you can. I never said I was some kind of special snowflake. It must be nice to have ALL the answers ALL the time.
And Bumpfire, go look at the employment numbers for the last 8 years. Your statement is complete crap.
And from this "dipchit'... fuck you very much.
I hope everybody here has a nice weekend. I'm going riding...

Mad

He has already saved more jobs before being sworn in than barack Hussein has in eight years.

In February 2009 Obama went to Indiana to promote his stimulus plan, saying it would save or create 3-4 million new jobs, 80,000 of those jobs were right in Indiana.

A Republican opposed it on the House floor. "This backroom deal is simply a long wish list of big government spending that won't work to put Americans back to work. It won't create jobs."

This Republican congressman who said big government spending doesn't create jobs? Oh, he was from Indiana. Can you guess who he was?

That's right--Mike Pence, the guy you voted to be vice president. The same guy who just did a "backroom deal" to save 800 jobs. He said the type of government hand out that he had a hand in, doesn't create new jobs.

Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump :

”We need a president who can stand up to big corporations, not fold to their demands.”

Today, about 1,000 Carrier workers and their families should be rejoicing. But the rest of our nation’s workers should be very nervous.

President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly announce a deal with United Technologies, the corporation that owns Carrier, that keeps less than 1,000 of the 2100 jobs in America that were previously scheduled to be transferred to Mexico.

In exchange for allowing United Technologies to continue to offshore more than 1,000 jobs, Trump will reportedly give the company tax and regulatory favors that the corporation has sought. Just a short few months ago, Trump was pledging to force United Technologies to “pay a damn tax.” He was insisting on very steep tariffs for companies like Carrier that left the United States and wanted to sell their foreign-made products back in the United States. Instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut.

Wow! How’s that for standing up to corporate greed? How’s that for punishing corporations that shut down in the United States and move abroad?

In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/bernie-sanders-carrier-just-showed-corporations-how-to-beat-donald-trump/?utm_term=.c078bec3da85

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December 2, 2016 at 3:00 PM
U.S. economy added 178,000 jobs in November; unemployment rate dropped to 4.6 percent :

The U.S. economy added 178,000 jobs in November, while the unemployment rate fell to 4.6 percent, a level not seen since August 2007, according to government data released Friday morning. The first employment report since voters went to the polls last month shows an economy in strong shape as President-elect Donald Trump prepares to take office.

The November jobs report was also one of the final snapshots of the economy under Obama's administration. The picture was dramatically different from Obama’s first months in the White House, when the private sector was shedding roughly 800,000 jobs a month and the unemployment rate was at 10 percent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/02/u-s-economy-added-178000-jobs-in-november-unemployment-rate-drops-to-4-6-percent/?utm_term=.f6d35e049f94#comments

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Mad, I was just responding to your statement. Never said I had all the answers, but after reading your posts for days, your misstatements were too much. You can't insert our sensibilities into history. All countries expanded into new territories the same way. By today's standards inexcusable, but back then it was the norm. Just like comparing immigration from even 70 years ago to today doesn't work. There wasn't the capability of 12 guys getting together and killing thousands in one fell swoop. We are at war. How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were allowed in the 40s? They also didn't have the drug or gang problems coming up from the south. The idea of an open border with government vetting would be difficult at best. Illegal is illegal period. Checking my grandparents papers would also make no difference. They are dead. However, they worked hard to become citizens. Went to classes to learn citizenship, English, and economics while working. Giving illegals a pass for any reason is an insult. Especially since education is so much easier these days. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. This 2 party system is a joke, but it's what we have to deal with. I'm not an Obama fan, but I've hated the Clintons since before Bill was president. Absolutely no morals, principles, or conscience.

It'll be interesting how things work out between Russia and us now that Trump selected Tiller for SOS. He's a close friend of Putin since 1999. The confirmation hearing will definitely bust his chops.

Ok fine alg8er, now explain to me what the "Dreamers" should do.... This is the only country they know, they are students working toward making their lives and this country a better place. They are not criminals and drug dealers.
All the talk about how immigrants are all evil drug addled murderers and rapists is just such crap. Even illegal immigrants pay billions in taxes each year. You don't have to believe what I say, you say I misstate things so go do some research.
I just am disgusted by the attitude of people who look down at anyone not just like them. Well the world is not all white middle class, sorry to say.

Mad

oh my...

Take five minutes out of yer day day and watch some Russian crash videos on Youtube...I wouldn't say folks are overjoyed with the Russian government.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/13/2016 @ 8:35 AM *

OK I'm unsubscribing. Voting is over. I don't see the point in continuing this conversation.

It'll be interesting how things work out between Russia and us now that Trump selected Tiller for SOS. He's a close friend of Putin since 1999. The confirmation hearing will definitely bust his chops.

Well, our president elect talk of draining the swamp rings hollow by appointing Wall Street insiders.

He just selected as Secretary of State a guy who has no experience at all in diplomacy or in government.A guy who have close ties to Russia, with billions of dollars of business interests in Russia, and zero foreign policy experience. Tillerson already said WE SHOULD NOT sanction Russia.

Trump fill his cabinet with people who worked for Goldman Sachs, George Soros, The Rothschilds, almost every bank imaginable, including all his donors.

And now our president elect is questioning the CIA credibility and picking a fight with them. Russia cyber attack us, and Comrade Tic Tact Trump attack the CIA, unfreakinbelievable.

Trump Supporter Joe Walsh: He's Acting Like 3rd Grader, Treasonist Attacks CIA as Russia Attacks Us :

Well Mad, the exact quote "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
He did not say all immigrants are murderers and rapists. Another misstatement. You keep telling me to study this and read that. You first. To say ALL the dreamers are hard working students and taxpayers makes you a dreamer. Not once have I ever looked down on, or said anything derogatory, toward anyone. I'm disgusted by people that twist the facts, misquote, and outright lie to try to prove their point. Next will be personal attacks. Oh wait.........

I really don't know what your problem is alg8er. I try to find some good in everyone but some people make it impossible. The world is a complex place all in shades of grey. I have problems understanding how many people offer solutions in black and white.

Mad

And you want to read about personal attacks, go read some of your own posts.

Mad

Lol! Everything I posted to you, you posted in this thread to someone. "Do some research", "that argument is ridiculous" , so once again, maybe you should read your posts.
I never disagreed with any policies you support. I just disagreed with some of your "facts" and statements. If you want to look for the good in people, have at it, but looking for good in a politician? One of this country's biggest problems is lawyers, and we keep putting them in charge. It's just a game of loopholes and addendums. How much pork they can slip in, and still get it passed. Bills are hundreds of pages long, and Obamacare is thousands. How can any problem be solved?

bumpfire, you should be more worried about being killed by good ole "Murican" citizens.
alg8er, we finally agree on something. Well done.

Mad

" but looking for good in a politician? One of this country's biggest problems is lawyers, and we keep putting them in charge. It's just a game of loopholes and addendums. How much pork they can slip in, and still get it passed. Bills are hundreds of pages long, and Obamacare is thousands." I totally agree with you. Once I was in the solar industry and helping one company in preparing the DOE funding application. It was literally 1000 page document and I am not joking. Application fee was non-refundable $100K. Only few with good lawyers got the money and just like Solindra, many vanished once they got money. Politicians and lawyers. Can't live with them, can't live without them.

* Last updated by: OldMan on 12/14/2016 @ 2:50 PM *

I don't see how people go on and on about Russia when we have a current president who lets muslim terrorists and diseased,iliterate people swarm into our our country.Im more worried about getting killed by an eight time deported illegal,or a muslim who feels disrespected than I am from a comrade.Some forget about after the wall fell we welcomed the Russians onto our airbases,ships and submarines.They would be a great ally as opposed to the friendships that were made in the middle east with people that want to kill us all based solely on religious beliefs.

It is interesting to hear you said that "Russia would be a great ally" because I remember when in 2012 Obama was trying to negotiate with Russia, and was caught in a live microphone telling then Russian President Dimitri Medvedev that he would negotiate with issues like the missile defense.

As I recall, then front runner for the Republican nomination, Mitt Romney, House Speaker John Boehner, and John Bolton, ambassador to the United Nations during the Bush administration, criticized Obama and said, and I quote: "It constitutes an impeachable treason".

You said you "don't see how people go on and on about Russia". Do you realize that in 2012 the Republicans were outraged about Russia? They were referring to "Article 3 - Section 3 of the Constitution that defines treason as adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort, Article 2 - Section 4 says treason is cause for impeachment."

In 2012 Obama was accused by the Republicans of selling out the country to our enemies, and there was talk of "impeachment for treason" by the same people now defending Trump ties with Vladimir Putin.

What has changed? Do you feel the Russians would be a great ally? Just to give you some perspective, just 4 years ago the Republican party did not agree with your line of thinking, they probably would have call you a traitor.

So now is ok because is Tic Tat Trump doing it? I love it when people practice selective outrage.

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