I'm sending the SB6 back to Summit Racing.

Summit shows Not available ?

Summit Link click

LOL that's cuz they didn't get it back yet. I don't think they want to carry it anymore because it is out of production. There may be a few left on Ebay.

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LOL that's cuz they didn't get it back yet. I don't think they want to carry it anymore because it is out of production. There may be a few left on Ebay.

Yikes, I may be looking for one later this week.

I don't have Romans flash but I do have Romans fuel map. Just put it in tonight and here are my feelings:

definitely smoother shifting into 2nd gear at very small throttle openings. This is my only dislike with how the bike ran. It's more of a street performance issue than it is for sport riding. Still a bit of a hiccup with Romans fueling but a very noticeable improvement especially when the engine is not hot. Maybe further tuning will eliminate it. I see Romans's map is a lot leaner at small throttle openings than what I had. I expected just the opposite. I do not notice the hiccup in higher gears at all anymore.

NO lag from flies open response. My flies are out but with the old map, I still had the lag. One autotune adjustment seemed to almost eliminate it but I did not notice it there at all with Romans' map.

Increased low end power. The bike still wants to shudder a bit if I go WOT below 3k rpm. I don't expect that to change. Real low rpm and WOT is not for sport riding. Low end power is not immediately shocking but I did experience a surprise wheelie in a corner running into the midrange. I have taken this corner exactly the same way many times and the bike never did that before. It may be that the more aggressive riding I do will be most enhanced but that is also where I am most careful and the type of riding I do least often. It may be really hard to make a judgement on high rpm performance because I don't do it all the time over and over like I would with a race bike.

Noticed the bike run up to 4 bars but that is not unusual for a hot day in town. No different than the old map. Will keep my eye on the temp in the future not that I really have an issue with it.

Still have the decel popping and think I heard a crackle between gears one time. I'm very happy this was not eliminated because I love the sound but it may be somewhat reduced. Could very well be my exhaust which is probably quite a bit different than most on the market or maybe I have an exhaust leak that is sucking in air.

Overall, I'm very happy with it. It is definitely an improvement and there are no disadvantages at all. No map i have ever tried has been earthshaking but they all had a downside or two except for this one. Romans's tweaks are all worth it. Autotune is next. Then we go for the ignition module.

Thank you Romans!

EDIT 03-07-17:

The bike still wants to shudder a bit if I go WOT below 3k rpm. I don't expect that to change.

Just looking back at this several months later. I used Autotune to refine Romans map and the big changes were down low and at small to middle throttle positions. 80-100% TP did not require very much change and the high rpm range had just a few cells to change with very small trims. The low rpm shudder i spoke of was smoothed out after accepting trims from a couple tuning runs. I don't intend to whack the throttle at 2000 rpm under any circumstances but if I want to I can now do it without feeling the engine protest. The power pulls the bike smoothly at 100% throttle even from this low of an rpm.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/7/2017 @ 4:07 PM *

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I don't have Romans flash but I do have Romans fuel map.

OMG, your just trying it now,,,,, that was a long time ago lol

Overall, I'm very happy with it. It is definitely an improvement and there are no disadvantages at all. No map i have ever tried has been earthshaking but they all had a downside or two except for this one. Romans's tweaks are all worth it. Autotune is next. Then we go for the ignition module.
Thank you Romans!

Glad you like the fuel maps Rook, now flash your ECU. All that's wrong with the Gen 1 ZX14 is in that ECU. Complete the puzzle. you Gen 1 guys have so much more to gain than the 14R guys. Yet no one talks about it. Why ? Never could get my head around that one. But ok.

Yes, just trying it now. Life went into a big upheaval about a year ago and I'm just getting settled. Finaly found the laptop. LOL

I'm not against flashing. It's just that I'm not seeing the big advantage over modules alone for the gen1. Flies are out, control of timing and fueling is had, there's no more power to harness by extending the rev limit....after all is said and done, I will need to have modules to fine tune anyway. Sure, it would be cool to rev to 1200 once in a while but what else do I need a flash for on a gen1 if the fueling is already a done deal? After fine tuning your map in a PCV, I'd just ask you to flash the stock values in my ECU fuel tables anyway. No reason to do it all over again. I know we've discussed it at length already. I might be just not getting it but the gen2 seems to benefit more from flashing if the bike is not going to be tuned any further via modules.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/12/2016 @ 10:14 PM *

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Tried the old map again this weekend. Not bad but the old map definitely has a more pronounced hiccup at small throttle opennings. My bike does it in 2nd gear with the Romans map too but not as bad. According to the PCV software, my TPS is calibrated perfectly. I think I just need to do a small adjustment to the Romans map and it will be gone. Also, definitely notice the front wants to come up in first and second at partial throttle openings in the midrange with your map. Never quite had that kind of pull before.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/13/2016 @ 5:05 PM *

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I know we've discussed it at length already. I might be just not getting it but the gen2 seems to benefit more from flashing if the bike is not going to be tuned any further via modules.

Rook The Gen2 has a beautiful timing map. A simple 2 degrees added provides all the gains to run the edge. Not allot of work here to do, Kawi has done a sweet job. Not much help from us is needed, if at all. The map as whole is very very good.

The Gen 1 most certainly does Not have a great timing map. I hate it. This is my opinion of course based on years of playing with the Gen timing maps. And I can promise you the man that tuned the 14R is Not the same guy who tuned the Gen 1. His style is totally different.

Not bad but the old map definitely has a more pronounced hiccup at small throttle openings.

Rook that Hiccup has been called a thousand names from the year 2006 up to present day. you will never get rid of it completely with fueling alone. Remember I spent years trying.

Also, definitely notice the front wants to come up in first and second at partial throttle openings in the midrange with your map. Never quite had that kind of pull before.

Wait until you try my view of a repaired timing map. Im sure you will love it. But maybe not, only one way to find out. I must admit you have done very well to not go into the light lol Impressive. Myself on the other hand am very weak, I have to try everything. Can't help myself. I'm still having fun at it.

The Gen 1 most certainly does Not have a great timing map.

but you do not flash timing, right? If not, we gen1 owners need to put an ignition controller in even if we get a flash.

Rook that Hiccup has been called a thousand names from the year 2006 up to present day. you will never get rid of it completely with fueling alone. Remember I spent years trying.

Good to know. If it's there and it's normal i can live with it.

Wait until you try my view of a repaired timing map.

LCD next, then Auto Tune the whole map as you have described starting on p 24 of this thread, THEN the icing on the cake---Ignition Module! BTW you were right, the Ignition Module requires wire taps to use all functions same as the SB6. It is not all through the stock wiring harness as advertised by DJ.

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I'm totally convinced now. True, the low end performance is not noticeably different than the old map except for the increased smoothness. The midrange is a big eye opener though. I just pulled a wheelie right through second gear at a little more than half throttle on flat ground and I know the bike didn't do that before. I used to have to wring the bike's neck to get it to wheelie and upshifting at redline would have been unpredictable. I like it!

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The midrange is a big eye opener though. I just pulled a wheelie right through second gear at a little more than half throttle on flat ground and I know the bike didn't do that before. I used to have to wring the bike's neck to get it to wheelie and upshifting at redline would have been unpredictable. I like it!

Rook I'm Glad you're liking it. Wish you lived closer, a flash you need to try. If for nothing else but to say you did. I would love to read your opinion.

It's also really nice to read you still have the love for your Bike. The ZX14 is truly a great machine. I have mixed feeling as the last one of my 14s is up for sale. .

Click To See Add

WHAT??? NO! You're flying the coop just when I come into my own? The final step is NOS and I have to go into that without your expertise? I'm going to be lost when it comes to timing.

Insurance is nothing. Go with liability. I can understand the time aspect though. If you don't ride and are not going to be able to for the foreseeable future, that is probably a good reason to sell ONLY if you get a good price.

I hope you will pop in once in a while. I really need to learn the whole tuning process if I'm going to be able to pass on the knowledge. For myself, I don't see quitting bikes for a long time. I've come close a few times but what else is there?

PM sent

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WHAT??? NO! You're flying the coop

No sir, never. I'm going no where. I've owned seven of these 14's. I'm sure I will build another one. Will be hard not to. Great hobby.

SHwOO! Glad to hear that. Glad you'll be around and I can't wait to see what you come with next..

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Thanks Romans

Without making this sound like I'm blowing sugar up your ass.
Your service and honesty is commendable. Shipping my ECU half way around the world was well worth the effort. Your flash is fantastic. (This after I had it flashed locally, however It just didn't feel right and wasn't what I expected. In fact I felt she ran better with no flash and a PCV)
Now I feel the difference between what I had and what it "should" feel like. The power is so smooth and the way she responds in every gear and all rpm ranges is super cool. She pulls hard and strong all the way through from 1st to 6th gear. I can deffinately see she runs cooler as well.
I ride my bike weekly and know when "things" are different. Good or bad. She was always nice to ride, now she's nicer to ride.
I had the guys on Sunday's breakfast run very envious.

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Thanks Romans Without making this sound like I'm blowing sugar up your ass.

Lol,,, No Sugar required but I am very glad you like it.

There has been allot of Flash Bashing on the forums in the last few years. So I know forum members don't give their trust out easily.

With that being said, Thank You Untamed For Your Trust. I really do appreciate it. I'm sure the more you ride the bike the more you will like it. IMO, bike should have come from the factory that way.

Best 250 Dollar Mod any of you could ever do. Promise. Once tried, no going back.

Cheers
Rick

Well here's a little more sugar, as Romes reminded me on the phone a couple days ago, yes, that old gen2 gets the front up in second gear now. Just his AFR map in my PC5...no flash yet but I can say, the old map was wheelies in first gear only. When I'm riding normally, there's not a world of difference between Romans and the previous tuner's map but open 'er up 75% and the game is ON! I am so glad to have learned what I did about autotuning over last summer. I know it's not for everyone. It's dangerous, it's time consuming. If you just want to bypass all of that, go with a flash. I don't see any big gains by refining by autotune and I'm about 600 feet higher in elevation than Romans. If you are intrigued with self tuning, by all means, do it.

Here you go Romes. I had to cut it because I didn't want to fly up too much on the ass of the car ahead. It's not WOT until 6th gear because I didn't want to chance missing a gear with the quickshifter. You're right, that 45 tooth will take it to 186......next time!

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Forgot to add in another big difference is the decal pop. or at least the absence of it.
There is no more rumble or the 3500rpm back fire.
I got so used to it, I almost miss it.lol

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Has anyone gone from having just Romans flash to adding a PCV and dyno tune with it? Any notable difference? Money well spent or not? I have the tune just curious as to whether a few more ponies could be picked up.

I had the PVC before the flash. I have kept it on and do my own fueling. If your fueling is done in your ECU and is correct for your riding style, elevation etc then logic tells me there would not be a big benefit. Romans would best be able to answer this.

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Yeah that's what I thought as well.

Has anyone gone from having just Romans flash to adding a PCV and dyno tune with it? Any notable difference? Money well spent or not? I have the tune just curious as to whether a few more ponies could be picked up.

Blkcasper wrote page 14

Finally got bike maintenance done. Bascially 15k service done at 21k. Here's my results.
History for reference, Bike setup at 7900 miles dyno done on 2/13
Brocks pair block off, two brothers slip ons,two brothers db1 sound tips, flys removed, stock gearing, stock wheel base, pc5 with custom map, pilot rd 3 with 300 miles on them: Here's the dyno chart:
200hp 113-114 Trq doesn't show afr but tuned to 13.1-13.5

2nd dyno done 4/14, 21k miles, bike setup same as above with following additions:
Romans flash no pc5, streched 10 inches, pilot rd3 with about 13k on them, full tune up andd valves just done,
Dyno results: 198hp 114-115 Trq doesn't show afr but is 13.1- 13.5

Actually I'm very pleased with the results. Considering the dyno runs were done almost a year apart, hp and trq numbers are almost the same. 2hp less but 2 lbs more trq.

What's hard to see in the chart's is that after the flash and the 10 inch stretch, looking at the the graphs the bike is making more power sooner, accelerating harder, and faster. 1st run took 5.161 seconds to peak out. Second run took 5.004 seconds to peak out. That's close to 2/10 of a second faster if im reading the chart's correctly. Riding on the streets I can definitely feel a difference in acceleration when running up through the gears.

Here you go Romes. I had to cut it because I didn't want to fly up too much on the ass of the car ahead. It's not WOT until 6th gear because I didn't want to chance missing a gear with the quickshifter. You're right, that 45 tooth will take it to 186......next time!

Next time,,,,,,Snow flying now. Maybe wait a bit lol luv the vid

I don't even want to know what 180 mph feels like at -6°F.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/16/2016 @ 6:09 AM *

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Thanks Romans.