Gun ownership by education levels, registered voters

I can only speculate about which group the non-registered morons would fall into.

It's easy for the media to pull on heart strings with these killings, but
in fact they represent a "VERY SMALL" percentage of deaths that occur.

Our attention could be well better spent elsewhere but it just
doesn't sell newspapers. example "Opioids were involved in 42,249 deaths in 2016"
The list goes on. Firearm deaths barely make the top ten, hell far more
deaths committed with claw hammers then guns.

Guns "are not" outlawed in Australia just restricted and lic. There
has been "NO" evidence that the new guns laws in Australia have reduced
homicide rates. If you look at homicide rate in Australia it follows
around the same reduction in homicides as US and other modern countries
during the time period.

Fact check this stuff.

"AR-15" assault rifle, doesn't matter. un-knowledgeable people blaming AR-15's/assault rifles, etc.
Type of gun doesn't matter.

Gotta love Arizona, don't even need a concealed weapons permit to carry concealed,
just need to be a law abiding citizen.

Background Checks? Pretty easy to buy guns from a private party. No background
check needed. As long as you knowingly don't sell to a felon it's legal.

I've bought several guns from private parties met in parking lots legally.

We have a lot of laws on the books that could be better enforced don't need
more new ones that go unenforced.

don't own any guns either but I'm glad many citizens do. I'm also glad some own military guns and I'm glad they modify them to operate as they were originally intended. A well armed population is the only defense against a tyrannical leader's use of the military to control the population. That's the whole reason for the 2nd amendment. I don't think the main concern was hunters when they came up with that one. I don't think enough citizens are armed and trained with the right weapons.

Our second amendment rights are too sacred to toss out the window. I'd love it if our country was more peaceful and nobody needed to plan for such things as a military coup or the more likely event of a mass shooting but that's not us. In Europe where gun control is very strict, there were bombings for decades and everyone just went on living with it. Gun control won't stop mass murder. It can reduce the damage from mass shootings though.-Rook

That's all great and you have every right to think that way. But no ideas on how to stop these senseless massacres.

When the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment, private weapons were pretty much the equal of military weapons. But if the US military ever tried to take over and declare martial law, I doubt those 3 million privately-held firearms would make much of a difference. Gun owners would say; "when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and the military would say, "ok" And in a short time, that, my friends, would be that.

It's easy for the media to pull on heart strings with these killings, but
in fact they represent a "VERY SMALL" percentage of deaths that occur.

SO SMALL AS TO BE ALMOST MEANINGLESS, UNLESS IT'S YOUR CHILD

Our attention could be well better spent elsewhere but it just
doesn't sell newspapers. example "Opioids were involved in 42,249 deaths in 2016"
The list goes on. Firearm deaths barely make the top ten, hell far more
deaths committed with claw hammers then guns.
I WOULD LIKE TO THINK OUR CHILDREN ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN DRUG ADDICTS

Guns "are not" outlawed in Australia just restricted and lic. There
has been "NO" evidence that the new guns laws in Australia have reduced
homicide rates. If you look at homicide rate in Australia it follows
around the same reduction in homicides as US and other modern countries
during the time period.

I DON'T KNOW WHO SAID THEY WERE OUTLAWED, I ONLY CITED THE EXAMPLE AS SOMETHING THAT HAS APPARENTLY HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT.

Fact check this stuff.

"AR-15" assault rifle, doesn't matter. un-knowledgeable people blaming AR-15's/assault rifles, etc.
Type of gun doesn't matter.

IS THAT A FACT I CAN CHECK SOMEWHERE/

Gotta love Arizona, don't even need a concealed weapons permit to carry concealed,
just need to be a law abiding citizen.

Background Checks? Pretty easy to buy guns from a private party. No background
check needed. As long as you knowingly don't sell to a felon it's legal.

I've bought several guns from private parties met in parking lots legally.

We have a lot of laws on the books that could be better enforced don't need
more new ones that go unenforced.

MANY WOULD ARGUE THERE SHOULD BE LAWS AGAINST UNLICENSED GUN SALES. NOT TO DEFEND BUMPFIRE, BUT HE PAYS FOR A LICENSE TO DO WHAT HE DOES AND THEN HE HAS TO COMPETE AGAINST ASSHOLES SELLING IN PARKING LOTS FOR CASH? TOTALLY UNFAIR TO HIM AND OTHER LEGITIMATE DEALERS.

Sorry for the caps lock, not being vehement. Better law enforcement (the only real idea presented in the Piken's rant) is a good idea. Police had been called to the Florida shooter's home 39 times. They knew him and they should have kept a closer eye on him. Bumpfire said he "slipped through the cracks" Close the cracks.

Go get yourself a Pilots license-Bumpfire

Had one, let it lapse. Motorcycles are more fun anyway

Go out and get a master Electrition license

Don't need a license to be an ELECTRITION whatever the fuck that is, but my son-in-law is a master electrician, I can always consult him.

Bringing up the HEPA law is the only intelligent thing you've contributed so far, but you've done the most internet tough-guy fatmouthing of anybody, like that changes anything.

I really don't know why you like trying to out me as some kinda racist Kofla-bumpfire

Because you are one.

bigoted and prejudiced assumptions.-Kofla

These and other assumptions are the crux of the biscuit. Take a prejudiced system of belief and begin building "alternate facts" or somesuch to rationalize your hate and pretend it's no such thing.

Hell, get a whole "news agency" while you're at it. I was accused of watching CNN, which is an ignorant lie. I do catch a lot of Faux Noize, though. It's on all the late-night comedy shows.

It's easy for the media to pull on heart strings with these killings, but
in fact they represent a "VERY SMALL" percentage of deaths that occur.

SO SMALL AS TO BE ALMOST MEANINGLESS, UNLESS IT'S YOUR CHILD

Our attention could be well better spent elsewhere but it just
doesn't sell newspapers. example "Opioids were involved in 42,249 deaths in 2016"
The list goes on. Firearm deaths barely make the top ten, hell far more
deaths committed with claw hammers then guns.
I WOULD LIKE TO THINK OUR CHILDREN ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN DRUG ADDICTS

Yes, of coarse, all lives are important. Just saying we have limited
resources. Apparently you have not followed these other issues closely, we are talking
about normal, average people being over prescribed a powerful pain killer by the
pharmaceutical drug lords with no concern for the known additive qualities of
the drug some become addicts in as little as a couple of weeks, including many
family members and "children".

"AR-15" assault rifle, doesn't matter. un-knowledgeable people blaming AR-15's/assault rifles, etc.
Type of gun doesn't matter.

IS THAT A FACT I CAN CHECK SOMEWHERE/

Lets start with the Virginia Tech Shooter. He killed 33 people and used a Glock 9mm handgun.
Again it's the news and unknowledgeable people that tout the AR-15/assault riffles are KILLERS!
All guns have deadly force, doesn't matter type. Going down the road of banner certain gun models
magazine capacity, etc. is just more meaningless garbage.

MANY WOULD ARGUE THERE SHOULD BE LAWS AGAINST UNLICENSED GUN SALES

Don't need a LICENSE for guns in Arizona. So not really such a thing as UNLICENSED sales.
If you are a gun dealer or deal across state lines, yes, you then need a Federal Firearm Permit.

Although there are federal laws against "Straw" sales.

You've never bought a motorcycle or car from a private party?

There are also many collectible firearms not available in stores and only
through private parties.

Better law enforcement

This is what I'm for. All departments needs better communication.

Also to clarify how medical personal can lawfully and rightfully inform
the proper enforcement people. Slippery slope.

I might not even have a problem with the broader enforcement of the
"Firearm Restraining Order". Although it's another guilty to proven innocent deal.

Gun ownership by education levels, registered voters

I can only speculate about which group the non-registered morons would fall into.

This is exactly why I dont believe anything you say, I gave you a chance to cite your references so we can have a discussion and you dont, or cant. When you keep making shit up no one believes you

Suggest you call you freshman Philosophy proff and ask him how to do that

I wonder how many car salesman lose sleep at night knowing that a guy he sold a car to went the wrong way and killed a family of five? Or gets drunk and kills a pregnant mom? Or the dad who straps his kids in the back and then runs 80 on the interstate cutting in and out of traffic so they will not be late for the start of the game and then loses control?

I wonder how many anti-gun folks lose sleep over knowing they have allowed these car salesman to sell cars to those who end up taking a life with them?

Every anti-gun person can do something about the 2nd Amendment, move to a country that doesn't have one, seems simple to me!

And the answer to the original question is more good guys with guns to secure those who cannot secure themselves, seems simple to me! And, for those who can protect themselves, just do it, seem simple to me!

This is such a difficult issue. The problem most people have is they approach the problem logically and depending on which side you are on the solution seems relatively simple. But this is political and logic does not apply.

Liberals want to ban and confiscate all guns and eventually these slaughters will be in the past. Logically, might work. Conservatives want to post arm guards, allow teacher and other legal carry and let them shoot the killers. Logically it might work.

But anything political does not involve logic as normal people see it. Politics is all about gaining control and power and money, aka other people's money. The kids on TV are passionate and advocating what they consider logical simple solutions to a horrible problem. Once this gets to DC logic is gone and politics take over. This is why nothing ever happens, its a political stalemate. Osama Obamb could have driven tremendous changes to the entire gun control 2A debate but he did nothing - why? Politics.

el Trumpo is likely to do something, like ban bump stocks ( I dont have them, tried several and they are inaccurate toys, very fun though) because it will benefit his political agenda. Anyone beside crazed liberals knows all the other shit they flap their lips about like gun show loopholes and enhanced background checks is pure bullshit that wont make any difference.

Here in the People Republic of Caliafornication we have all of these laws already and they changed nothing - so the Libs are moving on to even more new laws on law abiding people like me, that will do nothing.

This is such a difficult issue. The problem most people have is they approach the problem logically and depending on which side you are on the solution seems relatively simple. But this is political and logic does not apply.

Liberals want to ban and confiscate all guns and eventually these slaughters will be in the past. Logically, might work. Conservatives want to post arm guards, allow teacher and other legal carry and let them shoot the killers. Logically it might work.

But anything political does not involve logic as normal people see it. Politics is all about gaining control and power and money, aka other people's money. The kids on TV are passionate and advocating what they consider logical simple solutions to a horrible problem. Once this gets to DC logic is gone and politics take over. This is why nothing ever happens, its a political stalemate. Osama Obama could have driven tremendous changes to the entire gun control 2A debate but he did nothing - why? Politics.

el Trumpo is likely to do something, like ban bump stocks ( I dont have them, tried several and they are inaccurate toys, very fun though) because it will benefit his political agenda. Anyone beside crazed liberals knows all the other shit they flap their lips about like gun show loopholes and enhanced background checks is pure bullshit that wont make any difference.

Here in the People Republic of Caliafornication we have all of these laws already and they changed nothing - so the Libs are moving on to even more new laws on law abiding people like me, that will do nothing.

A few of points of view from a non US citizen.

I know I know. I don't live in the US so how can I possibly understand.
Yep, fair call.
But I'm speaking from an Australian/New Zealand perspective which I do understand.

The situation in Australia has worked. There is no contradicting it. The US has constant gun related massacres. Since gun control Australia has not had one.
It's not up for discussion. The facts are there for all to see.
The only point I will grant is although it worked in Australia, there is no possible way to know if the same processes would work in the US as they are two vastly different places.
And even if an Australian gun ban policy was agreed upon by the US, how do you retrieve the millions of firearms currently legally owned by US citizens?

There are many more deaths apart from gun related killings.
Yes this is true. Lets look at the drug problem which has already been raised. A very serious issue indeed that needs much attention and resolution. But never ever lose sight of the fact that virtually every drug overdose related death is SELF INFLICTED.
These gun related massacres inevitably involve innocents and a huge percentage of the them children going about their daily business only to be killed in cold blood.
The two cannot be compared.
The US always stands up as a protector of the disadvantaged and the innocent around the world.
Sometimes it's important look into ones own backyard first.

The Second Amendment right is precious to all pro gun proponents. Apparently it is a sacred right that cannot be touched.
But who stands up for the right to life for the children and innocents who have lost theirs to senseless massacres?
Is the Second Amendment right more sacred than the basic right to life?

And yes I can see whats coming next.
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
Maybe so.
But how big would a massacre be if a knife was used as the weapon?
Well, people could then revert to bombs!
Sure, but these are not legal, they have to be constructed, and there is a close watch on those kind of weapons and the materials used to make them due to terrorism making it a tough option.
So what about flying aeroplanes into buildings? Very difficult to organise but not impossible.
Would no guns resolve the issue completely? Hard to say. But I think all would have to agree the frequency of incidents would be reduced because current legally owned firearms are so easy and accessible which makes them extremely convenient for some of the violent occurrences in the past.
Its currently just too easy if one wants to do something horrific.

And no one to this stage of the ongoing debate has been able to answer the simplest of questions.
What is the purpose for any citizen of any country being allowed to purchase and own a semi automatic weapon?

I am unsure but what are the stats of perfectly innocent firearm accidents where death is the result?
This in itself must also be a major concern.

I have seen a couple of foolish comments about sending the police and military out without firearms in a gunless society. That is just obviously ridiculous and doesn't warrant response.

Most of you have probably watched the Jim Jeffries "Gun Control" sketch.
Worth a look on You Tube if you haven't seen it. Even if you don't agree it does raise a point or two worth considering.

A very simple question for pro gunners.
Hyperthetically, if you knew 100% you could save innocent children from being massacred in future gun related incidents by giving up your firearms would you?
Or would you stand by your 2nd Amendment right, keep all your firearms and run with the consequences?
Perhaps a very simplistic way of looking at things but you get my drift.

My opinion on the matter is pretty obvious.
I am so grateful that I lived/now live in a gunless society. If I have a really angry disagreement with someone we punch each other in the face and move on. There is no moving on when someone draws out a firearm and uses it in a moment of rage and anger.

Which begs another question.
Difficult to know but I wonder how many gun related deaths have occurred where the shooter has acted out of anger and impulse but instantly regretted their action wishing they could go back 60 seconds but knowing there is no reversal possible?

Again I know I will have a bunch of you guy's come down hard re these opinions but I just can't grasp how gun massacre after gun massacre is squared away with "Lets provide more guns".
Teachers with guns to protect students? How do you know that teacher hasn't always been a little loose and after having a very bad day decides to go from protector to murderer with his allocated firearm?
How can firearms in any way be positive in the school environment?

One thing we can all agree on.
Regardless of your points of view I truely wish you all the very best in the US with resolving the very serious reoccurring issues you guy's face over and over...

* Last updated by: yannih on 2/22/2018 @ 11:56 PM *

"But how big would a massacre be if a knife was used as the weapon?"..guy over in Asia just killed 27 with a knife.
If the killer is motivated,he doesn't need a gun to carry out the deed.And trust this.If there were no guns,they'd come up with something.Think 9/11.But there's so many ways to kill.We all know this.Whattaya gonna do,ban people from being around others?Prisons and jails are already doing that...and still...the 'inside the walls' killings go on.
What's scary and concerning is the use of truck bombs and the like.We haven't had those here really.A few...but not many.If that ever starts taking root here...we're really in trouble.It's already a premiere method in many countries.I'm very surprised we've so far been spared...somehow.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/22/2018 @ 12:46 AM *

Does it seem odd to anyone the lefts outrage over our kids being killed while at the same time support abortions?See how easy they choose life and death to fit their agenda?-Bumpfire

The problem is, you want to clump and compartmentalize everyone you don't agree with into one group as if they all agree with each other. Many pro-lifers are anti-gun. And anyone who says he doesn't give a fuck how many innocents end up dead because of the guns he sold for profit, surely can't be an anti-abortionist? Abortions are legal just like your gun sales, so quit being a fucking hypocrite.

When I called you an ignorant hillbilly, you were obviously pissed because you immediately responded in kind. It's probably not true and it lumps you into a group that you might not really belong to. But once you are labeled an ignorant hillbilly, all the qualities (or lack thereof) are immec\diately attributed to you regardless of the actual truth.

And I take back what I said about Trump sounding saner than you. His response to victims and survivors who went to the white House to plea for change: Arm the teachers. So how does that work? Force teachers to carry guns even though they get paid shit and are leaving their chosen trade in droves already? What about the teachers that don't agree with that at all? Fire 'em? Replace 'em with incompetent cronies like Trump did with as many Federal agencies as he could fuck up?

Let's turn the whole country into an armed camp. A kid can't even go to school without fear of being murdered by some gun nut.

* Last updated by: Danno on 2/22/2018 @ 2:22 AM *

And while we're including fake news, alt-right websites are attempting to discredit one of the outspoken survivors by saying he's a paid actor. You nazi gun nuts have a real problem with the truth when it doesn't suit your agenda.

See, I did it again- nazi gun nuts ignorant hillbillies libtard lefties with socialist agendas. fake news

None of these insults does one fucking thing to protect our chilren. And grandchildren in my case.

Have an actual idea? Post up. Want to continue insulting each other? Fuck off and die.

As long as people refuse to sacrifice anything, refuse to change anything, and continue to blame everyone else while taking no personal responsibility, it's only a matter of time before the next big massacre. Might be a school, might be a concert, but it won't be a Trump Rally. No guns allowed there.

And while you're moaning about the Democrats and Gun Control, chew on this one:

The last time any significant Federal firearm control legislation was passed, it was a direct result of the assassination attempt on a REPUBLICAN President and was NAMED after another Republican who was also shot.

More liberal bullshit and made up crap

The last time any significant Federal firearm control legislation was passed, it was a direct result of the assassination attempt on a REPUBLICAN President and was NAMED after another Republican who was also shot.

I dont recall Slick Willie getting shot when in 1994 he passed the federal background checks and assault weapons ban and standard magazine ban. You have zero credibility even for an angry white old man liberal.

So here is something that a State Governor could do today while the politicians are pontificating:
1. Sign executive order directing local police to post armed guards in all schools
2. Sign executive order allowing school employees who are currently licensed to carry concealed to do so and indemnify them against criminal and civil lawsuits if they have to use a weapon to defend students/school.
3. el Presidente sign executive order to make the feds and FBI do there jobs to investigate potential shooters in the future

None of these pussies would have gone near a school if they knew they would face a real chance of getting shot.

End the gun free zones

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 2/22/2018 @ 7:16 AM *

"None of these pussies would have gone near a school if they knew they would face a real chance of getting shot".

Well...I think this may be pretty valid.However,certainly they thought about 'what would happen when the police show up'.Unless they were convinced they'd get away before that happened.Or maybe,they just didn't care what would happen.In that case,armed security wouldn't make much difference...they'd have to be at the right place at the right time.

Too many troubled young people,and too many graphic 'kill em' games.I think that's a part of this deal as well...desensitizing young troubled kids.

For most kids,these games are just that...games.But for some,they become solutions.

Or maybe,they just didn't care what would happen.In that case,armed security wouldn't make much difference...they'd have to be at the right place at the right time.
Too many troubled young people,and too many graphic 'kill em' games.I think that's a part of this deal as well...desensitizing young troubled kids.

I'm sure the youngsters who do this sort of thing are a lot desperate misguided by the short sightedness of youth. Their world is mighty small. If they're ostracized at school, what could be more hopeless? Could going in and shooting everyone make it worse? They are better to ostracize themselves in a much bigger way than they have been ostracized---or so it seems to them.

I don't think the violent video games and real life internet content can help. I am certain I have been changed by the real killing and torture I have seen on the internet. Don't worry, it does not make me want to do it but seeing similar stuff is a lot less shocking after having been exposed to it several times.

the cyber bullying and shaming and slut trashing has to have an affect on kids we can't even comprehend. FFS kids are committing suicide over this cyber shit all the time.

None of these pussies would have gone near a school if they knew they would face a real chance of getting shot.

.
I just read a report that the ARMED officer assigned in the Florida school shooting stayed outside the building during the attack, never went in.

.
.

Stoneman Douglas school resource officer stayed outside as shooting unfolded, sheriff says.

The school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last week, officials said.

Scot Peterson never went in after taking a position on the west side of the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a Thursday afternoon news conference.

Peterson resigned after he was suspended without pay by Israel pending an internal investigation into his actions during the shooting that left 17 people dead, Israel said. Peterson was eligible for retirement.

Israel made the decision to suspend Peterson -- who was armed and in uniform at the time of the shooting -- after interviewing the deputy and reviewing footage and witness statements, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html

* Last updated by: KoflaOlivieri on 2/22/2018 @ 5:33 PM *