So here's the summary of Liberal ideas so far:

1. Mad Dog --

Crude, of COURSE your ideas of the 2nd amendment are correct and proper and OF COURSE anybody who disagrees with you is wrong. Your entire statement is bullshit. I don't have to justify my position to you or anyone.

2. East Coast Osama Obama loving Liberal - post cartoons and LOLs and emojis, same low esteem selfish reason as Mad Dog - waiting to be told what to say

3. Danno aka Angry old white liberal Union guy ?? - nothing even remotely coherent, maybe later today when he's halfway through the bottle he will blurt out a few core liberal positions.

No wonder Crooked Hillary lost with support from this bunch of losers

Making America Great again - because liberals lost!

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 2/25/2018 @ 8:54 AM *

Ah, I see you have joined the "Let's throw a tantrum" form of argument championed by bumpfart, Crude. Yay for you.
I repeat, I don't have to justify MY position to you. Especially since arguing with you and bumpy is like yelling at a rock, except the rock makes more sense. If you don't like that, piss right off.
Have a great day.

Mad

I am going to take my next and probably last response on this matter to a new Off-Topic thread.

So now I hear the cops stood their ground and followed book procedures? This sure bleeds having the right to bare arms if the cops are handcuffed to protocol. The system failed those kids. That top cop in charge is too dangerous to hold that position. If he's against any gun made, and is sworn to protect the laws? DaFuck!?!?

"So now I hear the cops stood their ground and followed book procedures"...sometimes,you can't 'follow the rules'...They should have gone in.Worry about the consequences later.

Cops and soldiers are trained to move to contact to figure out what's going on where the threat actually is. I would like to know what training they were given to do what they did?

I think some of you guys watch to many John Woo movies.

The shooting lasted like seven minutes. start to finish.

If I got the call and arrived at the scene the first thing I would do
is take cover and assess the situation, which in this case the shooter
had probably already fled by then.

There was total mayhem that went down in minutes, in hindsight it's easy to say what you
would of done with a time line and a map where the shooter was.
What, charge the killer, take his gun away or go in guns blazing, yeah right.

Many emergency medical workers had no idea where the suspect was for at least 30 minutes after the gunfire erupted, and the authorities struggled to identify him for another 15 minutes. All the while, rescue workers tended to victims under the cover of officers with long rifles, some of whom appear to have entered the school less than 10 minutes after the gunfire began — but just after the suspect fled.

Nah,I get ya.My hearing is quite good.I MAY have been able to assess where it was coming from very quickly.IDK.You are right.There wasn't much time.They most likely had no real layout of the school anyway.That would make hearing anything difficult to trace.

The latest theory from President David Dennison (as he is referred to in non-disclosure agreements with porn stars) is that violent video games lead to school shootings.

I can say for a fact that this is total bullshit. My youngest plays some of the bloodiest games on the internet and she evicts live insects from our house-in other words, she wouldn't harm a fly.

Another whiff for the big swinger.

The hugely vast majority of kids playing those games would never think of carrying it out in real life.But there are disturbed people (kids) who most definitely would emulate something like that if their thinking wasn't okay.It can't be ruled out.A troubled(or not)child doesn't have the maturity to fully reason things sometimes.Marketing knows all about this.Add lots of deep seated anger...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/9/2018 @ 5:53 AM *

Danno: I can say for a fact that this is total bullshit. My youngest plays some of the bloodiest games on the internet and she evicts live insects from our house-in other words, she wouldn't harm a fly.

You can't be serious using this statement to make a point!

Well...if Danno's child is gold hearted...then they all are....(which I'm sure she is...good job Danno..I mean that honestly).

Have there been mass shootings committed by women? Women usually spread gossip and try to ostricize as a form of revenge. If all else fails they may try to suicide, but with only 20% success.

She explained her actions by saying, "I just did it for the fun of it. I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day. I have to go now. I shot a pig, I think, and I want to shoot more. I'm having too much fun."

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/boomtown-rats-i-dont-like-mondays/

I work with kids and it's almost every day I do something to make sure the ones who are not developing socially DO fit in and are accepted or recognized for something positive. I think it's a small minority of children that have real potential to violently lash out at school but for sure, every one of them would be among the socially retarded demographic, whackjob or not (if they are a real whackjob, they are in a learning environment to meet their special needs). I don't mean to use that term "retarded" in a derogatory fashion. These kids are developing social skills slower than average. Sometimes much slower. They can't be expected to act like an average 16 year old when they are rejected. A typical reaction to repeated rejection is to ostracize one's self. It's much better to choose to rebel rather than accept others pushing you out. Hitting back harder than you have been hit is the ultimate act of rebellion and it might seem like a very sensible thing to do. There is not much harder hitting than when you use a weapon. Kids react to peer rejection by killing themselves sometimes and that is probably a much harder thing to do than to kill others. There should be no real big surprise if a student with delayed social development looses it and shoots the place up in reaction to not getting the interaction with peers they need to grow up. Fortunately, it's a small number who go as far as murder. I think the best way to protect all of our students is to focus a lot more attention on everyone learning to accept one another and interact in positive ways. Kids should have to do it all the way through school if not for safety, just because it's the right thing to learn.

I'm not sure a program to arm teachers will be very productive. Cripesake, if the cops can't stop it, a bunch of teachers won't either. Fuck, we take the day off to balance our checking account. You think we're going to stick around when a kid comes in with an automatic weapon? Hell, no! Most teachers i know are women with kids married to a guy making a lot more money. They're not going to stick around and get shot. Better prevention is the answer if you ask my .02 Prevention is easy and probably a lot more effective...and it's NICE!

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/12/2018 @ 6:24 PM *

If they cant get inside then the harm they cause would be drastically reduced.

I think arming teachers and staff is a good thing.If anything,it'll be a HUGE deterrent for anyone planning something like this again.

"those who can adapt to change will survive" the others may or may not, it's impossible to know.

Here in the people's republic of Californication the Communist Gov passed a statewide law banning teachers from lawful legal carry in schools even if the local (aka rural) community was 100% in support. Gun free school zones guaranteed statewide - what could go wrong with that? Maybe if the illegal criminal aliens complain they will consider changing the law

I just don't know about this teachers carrying guns idea. For sure it would make an attacker think twice assuming that they were thinking semi rationally. It might just make them plan it out a little more carefully so that they could do the attack from a safer position. I'm afraid it would encourage students to bring guns to school too. Not that it always works so well but teachers model behavior for students. We don't smoke in the teachers lounge anymore and we don't swear or wear inappropriate clothing. We pretty much follow the rules the kids are supposed to follow. If it becomes a rule that we can or have to carry guns to school, kids are going to jump on that. A lot of them probably would like to do that even if there wasn't a possibility that there could be an attack. It would be different if carrying a gun was something that all adults did like driving a car. Since that's not the case, kids are going to see carrying a gun to school as a special privilege and they're going to be more tempted to sneak that privilege for themselves. The ones who would do that would probably be the ones I would least trust with a gun in school. The least mature. ---closer to that sliver of the pie who might actually plan an attack in the first place.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/14/2018 @ 8:38 AM *

I favor the right of a teacher to carry concealed (preferably deep concealment in this case)to protect themselves, as all adults should have. However I do not consider the typical concealed carry training sufficient for teachers who are going to be strapped with a responsibility to protect my kids.

I know teachers who need no additional training to qualify, but they are the few exceptions. I think the average teacher needs in around 40+ hours of training specific to their environment, which also includes a vetting process.

No one knows exactly what they are going to do in any given situation until they are faced with the decision to act and how to act. We do know that using a gun to defend ourselves against an attacker can provide us with a means to repeal that attack, but only if we have a gun at that time. If a teacher is unsure before facing a critical situation, then they would seem to be a poor selection. If however they have the mindset in advance, then they may be of help when and if they are faced with a lethal attack. Again, we never know until we are tested.

We also know, arming some teachers is just one layer of the security issue, that should work some of the time, but should in no way be considered the end all solution. It may be a means to reduce injuries during an attack while we work on improving the health of students in question, which we also know will take some time, if ever!

The fixes aren't that complex, but the time to implement many of the fixes means we should consider some other fixes, like arming some teacher/staff which provide a layer we do not have now in many schools. We do know the police, even resource officers, are seldom if ever the first responders, teacher and staff however are.

I understand we have many teacher who may not feel they have an obligation to step up with lethal force to protect the children they have the responsibility for, and I think this is sad but a reality. I do think they need to consider taking their obligation and responsibility to protect and secure to a higher level and get serious about wanting schools to be safer. I also understand there are schools where some teachers are more afraid of their students on a daily basis than they are of an intruding shooter! Some schools have lost almost all control of their students and that control starts with the parents and administrators.

Just some of my thoughts....

I do agree with you Rook, its probably does not work for everyone or maybe even most. I would imagine if teachers in Santa Monica even read an article about public support for teachers who are trained and legal to carry they would have to run to a safe space and go to therapy for months but in Texas they already do it and have for years (in some schools). If the local community, school board and teachers approve and it makes the school safer I support the concept. If it doesn't work for a specific school/location I support that also.

Will there be a pay increase for teachers if they also are expected to act as SWAT team members? The extra bucks might help. There is a shortage of teachers right now. Will they be allowed to shoot someone for drawing a weapon or will they have to wait until they are attacked?

I think maybe we're getting a little hysterical about the whole topic. There are many thousands of schools there out there where this has never happened. It's no different than terrorism (in fact it is terrorism of a sort). It can happen but it's not a reason to start living a lot differently. Put some serious effort into creating an atmosphere that fosters inclusiveness because that's how it ought to be anyway.

And don't fire any teachers who carry a concealed weapon if they're certified to do so and don't say anything to anyone if they do. That's how it should be everywhere. There are metal detectors anywhere that gun violence is a real threat. If you're an outsider, you check your gun at the door if you brought it with you. If you're a mass murdurer, you'll bring your gun either way.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/14/2018 @ 8:49 PM *

This is insane.
Every country struggles to find enough high quality teachers to educate their youth.
And existing teachers simply want to teach.
Thats why they are teachers!

Now you're suggesting you want them to teach, but also to carry loaded firearms and be prepared to kill anyone who poses a severe threat to a school and its students?

So the job description now changes from
"Make a difference to the youth of today by teaching for tomorrow"
to
"Make a difference to the youth of today by teaching for tomorrow, and also be prepared to carry a loaded firearm, risk your life and protect your students by shooting to kill possible weapon wielding threats."

Yep, brilliant marketing to promote teaching to anyone considering that profession for their future.

And will part of the curriculum of studying to be a teacher also now include being trained on how to shoot and kill another human being in the most efficient way?

What if a firearm carrying teacher has particularly bad days/weeks/months and is pushed right to the limit by students/situations/home issues? Can you 100% guarantee there will never be a spare of the moment incident involving a teacher using their firearm in a negative manner?
Everytime?

If teachers are to carry loaded firearms in the classroom can you 100% rule out any accidental injury or deaths?
Everytime?

No matter what your beliefs are, it just makes no sense at all...

* Last updated by: yannih on 3/14/2018 @ 10:37 PM *

For those who are looking for 100% of anything in life, they must be very disappointed in how things are for them and the rest of us. I imagine there are a few exceptions in the world of those who have lived a full life and went to their grave and achieved and experienced 100% of everything, but very few, maybe 1 or 2, and they were very protected. It is strange to me that those who ride motorcycles, considering the risk factors, want 100% guarantees.

Because it has never happened here, it not a very good reason for not preparing, after all it is a common statement heard often from victims, "I can't believe it happened to me". Teachers/staff should not have to carry a gun, but they should be willing to take the risk to protect their students when and if they are facing a situation that the children are under attack. If they are not willing to take responsibility, then perhaps they should consider a different career.

Their top priority is to teach, but every adult human should be prepared to stand and fight to protect those whom cannot protect themselves if they are going to take charge of their welfare at a gathering place like a school.

In almost every shooting incident there are those capable of making a positive difference in the outcome who instead of making a stand, cower and hide or run. The mindset of fighting for life has nothing to do with guns. A good guy with a gun simply has a better means to reverse the position of victimhood in favor of those who refuse to be a victim without recourse.

As an adult, I cannot imagine why I would take charge of children, in a leadership role, and not also take responsibility and obligation for their welfare to protect them from those who would pose harm to them while they were in my care. If that means risking injury or death, so be it. If that means packing a gun, so be it. If that requires an hour a day getting everyone through security, so be it. Teacher can teach and still be adult enough to fulfill their responsibility to protect the children when in their care. They don't all have to carry guns, but they should all be prepared to sacrifice if called on.

A couple of comments/questions about your analogies Eagle.

It is strange to me that those who ride motorcycles, considering the risk factors, want 100% guarantees.

Teachers/staff should not have to carry a gun, but they should be willing to take the risk to protect their students when and if they are facing a situation that the children are under attack.

If they are not willing to take responsibility, then perhaps they should consider a different career.

As an adult, I cannot imagine why I would take charge of children, in a leadership role, and not also take responsibility and obligation for their welfare to protect them from those who would pose harm to them while they were in my care. If that means risking injury or death, so be it. If that means packing a gun, so be it.

Just a few points to consider...

* Last updated by: yannih on 3/15/2018 @ 5:52 PM *

Teachers/staff should not have to carry a gun, but they should be willing to take the risk to protect their students when and if they are facing a situation that the children are under attack. If they are not willing to take responsibility, then perhaps they should consider a different career.

Why? They are teachers for god sake! Some will have it in them to do that and some will not. If they wanted to carry guns or protect the community they would have joined the police force or army.

Their top priority is to teach, but every adult human should be prepared to stand and fight to protect those whom cannot protect themselves if they are going to take charge of their welfare at a gathering place like a school.

My feeling is, protect yourself and your class to what extent seems best for the situation. If that means running away, I don't blame anyone. So we're back to "carry a gun if you want. Do what you think you need to do if the situation arises." Probably a lot of teachers would stand and fight for their students because they have a lot closer personal connection to them than a cop usually does. I still can't blame anyone from running away from a machine gun if they are holding a .45