Opinions?

Outstanding!

No IMS issues with the brilliant Mezger engine in the turbo models. Just about bullet proof and one of the best engines ever designed.
Also, I can see it comes with the chrono package which would tickle your performance preferences.

I reckon you test drive that and there's a great chance you won't go home without it.
And I would be one jealous fuck!!!

Magnificent motor vehicle.

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yanni, click the Porsche url again. They dropped the price. Have any insight as to what might be going on?

I could live with this one too. https://www.total911.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/P14_0893_a4_rgb.jpg

Ever come across this one? www.total911.com

13 years and about 1287km a year worth of driving. And how many years sitting if not throwing in that average? The lowest number is 85 thousand US on that KBB price scale. Year wise it's getting old in the tooth. Brand new is almost 100k US. I mean, you'd be in a base model for a little more.

It smokes, it's a beater for maybe 65-70k then? I think KBB is way off. That's what I price it at and 14 big ones slowly creeping up on the tooth.

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Haven't seen that site Hub but have now...

Check this one out.

Stuttcars

Go to and click on the "Models" tab up the top which will then show progressive pictures of that Porsche model starting from early to late.
Then click on the pic variations of that model you want check out.
It will give a pretty detailed history and development of that model.
Plenty of great information on the 911's.
Look out for the 2005 997 Gen 1 which I have.

When you get to the bottom of a page make sure you look out for the "Continue" tabs because there is more.
The only disadvantage is I believe only information to the 2019 models is included.
(Haven't been there for a while)

In my opinion a really interesting read regarding Porsche's motorcars.
Especially if you are considering one...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/31/2021 @ 1:39 PM *

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They dropped the price. Have any insight as to what might be going on?

An enigma here Hub.

Don't know what is happening in the US of A, but here in New Zealand I fully expected second hand Porsche's to reduce in price due to the financial insecurity of todays virus affected world and resulting reduction in disposable income.

But no, they are going up!
I have NFI as to why this is so.

I know prices are rising as I have been keeping an eye on a potential upgrade on my 997.1.
I really would like another 997 but a later model Gen 2 that no longer has the inherent potential engine issues the Gen 1 has plus it has the PDK double clutch gearbox everyone raves about. Gen 1's have the tiptronic boxes which are okay but no comparison.

So my upgrade will have to wait till something changes price wise.
Could be a long wait...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/31/2021 @ 1:42 PM *

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You're spooking me, man. Way too much trivia you're throwing at me. Vette wise, I can tell some of those C-series body years kind of, but I would not know what a 997 or the other 99? is. That kind of stuff is up your alley. So beats me what years the bearing failure begins and ends.

Had an '80 Vette, and from the front to back, I started replacing all the ball joints, wheel bearings, races, whatever chassis grommets to frame rubbers. When I sold it, it was so quiet and steered like new. I'd choose any Vette year, both working on them back in the 90's, and owning a '62 Vette in my youth. I totaled it and I swapped to bikes and never looked back.

But damn if that freak'inn marketing isn't aimed right between the age brackets I'm stuck in. Sure enough, they have us pegged for the Vette market. It's an old farts sports car. Might as well be the Porsche market as well.

So far that black 2008 is a 911 what? Is it a 997 or the other 99? Instead of me chasing a Porsche forum, you have any bookmarked as your go-to's? What exactly is that 2008 so I can see all those Porsche headings and look around to see who's got problems with this _______ fill in the blank. Thanks.

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And that ends the show

Bye-bye wipe my cams and regoop my water lines. Bet this is an early titled 2008 built in 2007, and another clusterfuk of proud german engineering... as in, I better dump this thing while it's still running.

Pass thanks. A 911 99?.1... I don't think so. I should bring a blank check, write a price, they pass it around and laugh. I'd have to pull the engine for 12 grand? Then the updated parts? And was there a recall for this like the cam bearings?

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Well, as if I care. I first need 90min for a prerequisite to a 4 hour run in the GT3. The 4-hr has you download an app that records your brake, speed, and other points to improve your way around the course(8-combos)? You're videoed with the package I think?

Yeah, I better get in shape for a 4hr stint? Think of it as a short lease contract, free of bearing/cam/hold my hose and don't forget to scratch my balls.

Too bad it wasn't a full 4hr endurance race kind of gas up and keep going. Focus flying... I wish. Either way, I'm all in. That 2008 is a garage queen if I ever saw one. I agree with that comment he made. The red one, not so much.

And there you go, cali approved 6-speed. Rear steer. I bet your car handles like a slot car, yanni. I know where he's at so this would be the playground. The Porsche crowd around here likes to flip them so every once and awhile I'll hit the dealers and see what's on their floors.

For sure I'll know how this puppy handles in a few months time. And the more I think of it, I can spend a shitload less buy just taking the 4hr [therapy course] a few times a year as they rotate to the latest models.

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Forgot to mention... walking down for the mail, I see the back wheels off the Porsche again.

Year Killing Me, Larry!

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Get the GTS any one from 2011 and on. They are the GT3 with a bit more style and comfort.

AFA "the wheels off", probably an owner under there cleaning or tweaking something, not much you can or need to do to the newer models. Hard to believe how Chevy tried so hard to make the Vette look like a 10 year old Ferrari. Im sure the Vette is a very nice car, its simply in a different class than the Porsche GT3 or GTS.

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I completely missed the heritage club site. Thanks.

https://www.meritpartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DSC_6960-1600x900.jpg

Pretty 2011 GT3, but I have two settlements at around 80k combined and that's my budget. That's why the Jag at 55k, the Porsche around 80k; is right in line if I have to blow that kind of money on something I like. I doubt the camaro at that same price will hold its value like any Porsche say. I think I'd come out ahead if I had to sell the Porsche.

Besides, the 2008 looks a lot meaner, and much more attractive to me.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/1/2021 @ 9:56 PM *

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You're spooking me, man. Way too much trivia you're throwing at me.

I figured you wrong Hub.
With your strong technical back ground I thought you would lap up detailed information on what you were considering so you could relate it all back to your substantial knowledge.
Apologies.

Instead of me chasing a Porsche forum, you have any bookmarked as your go-to's?

Here are some basics for you to save time.
The 911 has been around for a long time and has differing designations dependent on what generation it is.
For example, I have a 2005 911 "997.1". The 997 variant's were made from 2005 to 2011 (Gen 1 997's 2005-2008 and Gen2 997's 2009-2011).
The 911 "991's" then took over from 2012 - 2018.
The current models are the 911 "992's" from 2019 - current.
Of course there are many variant's made before my 2005 (964, 993, 996, etc).
Some of these models are much more desirable and expensive than others.

The 993 911 is considered the last real 911 as it was the last of the air cooled engines and for it's classic lines.
So more expensive older model.
The 996 911 is considered the least desirable as it was a makeshift combo parts sharer with the Porsche Boxter (using similar parts to save money when the brand was struggling financially), fried egg shaped headlights and plastic dash.
Cheaper older model.

Another reason for picking up some 911 models at a cheaper price tag is associated issues with certain engines.
All 911 "996" Carrera and Carrera S's, and Gen 1 911 "997" Carrera and Carrera S's (mine) had issues with the intermediate shaft bearings (IMS) and rear main seals (RMS).
If one of those gave way it meant your engine was toast and not cost effective to repair.
Very serious design short coming from Porsche to use bearings that did not stand up to required high performance engine forces.
Now approximately only 1 in 10 of 911's fail that are afflicted by this issue but that doesn't help you if you are one of the unlucky ones and your engine disintegrates.

It's why you always hear people ask "has the IMS bearing been replaced" when dealing with these models.
That's the poor news.

The good news is the Turbo's, GT3's etc of that era and anything outside 1997-2008 have completely different engines that much improved without these associated issues (in context of course as these are high performance motorcars).

It does however mean bargains are to be had dependent on your budget and getting the safeguard work done.

In my opinion, your mate who sold the red 911 997 Turbo is way way off the mark.
As mentioned above, the Megzer engine is considered a brilliant engine.
The cam shaft issue is very much over stated. You look it up. Same with the coolant hoses.
An insignificant number of issues compared with how many of these turbo's are out there and the associated incredible reviews.

But old matey gives the game away by saying "I was already into the car so deep financially that I just couldn't bear putting more money into it".
Why the hell did you buy a car you can't afford?
How can you possibly enjoy a high performance sports car if you are always worried about what it might cost to maintain or repair?
So I can see his bias towards a negative attitude towards such a classic.
If you have to ask how much a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc is to service and maintain, you shouldn't be considering it.
Also the comment "It's way too fast".
What did you expect from a Porsche Turbo FFS?
Again in my opinion, very little credibility and I wouldn't be taking too much notice of this bloke.
He is entitled to his opinion, but do a search on "Porsche 911 997 Turbo's" and see what the overwhelming sentiment and opinion is.

I bet your car handles like a slot car, yanni.

Mine is not rear wheel steer (mine is a Carrera 2S and you need the 4S for that) and I know it's cheeky, but as long as its someone who believe can handle it, I love scaring the shit out of first time passengers with the approach speeds into and through a corner. The old passenger virtual brake gets pushed quite a bit...

Hub, I'm not trying to sell you here, but hopefully the above helps a bit...

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/2/2021 @ 12:54 AM *

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Thanks for the footnotes, yanni. Never got into cars since high school so you got me. I am totally green about 4-wheels. I've been driving a truck or van for most of my life. The Vette was one of those 7 year itches and got over that. Now that I have a shitload of time on my hands, a little discretionary money, do I want a potential headache I throw the dice?

You narrowed down that window of [our] 2005 to 2008 series. That open window bleeds IMS, RMS, and now CWO [cam wiped out], or something to look forward too. I'm thinking crude has the right idea and go new. One of those mates has a tie-in with Porsche and they loan them a lot of models.

So not knowing one model from the other I caught them in a flat 4 turbo. I buy in at the entry level of 77k to the upgraded model they were driving. Top of the line, entry level, I have a decent handling car? I mean that fleet they have you experience at the Carson facility, I can run the whole gamut and come away with a winner.

Go big or go broke? The GT3 around 3, add 5 more zeros and yeah, I'd go big and went broke. I'm counting my ZZ Topps so I'm trying to time it where I go broke and die to a perfect ending. This is like therapy, yanni. Went thru the Vette phase, now remembering that 60 Porsche, it's like a fight going back to my youth.

Know anyone that bought their old high school bikes and car, restored them or bought a restored one; and there you go. I know someone who did just that. Now here I am about to pull the trigger once again.

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With your strong technical back ground I thought you would lap up detailed information on what you were considering so you could relate it all back to your substantial knowledge.

Here is how technical I get. Honda comes out with a GL1000 flat 4. So bulletproof out in the field, it eats clutch plates (customer fault not the engineering/parts used, etc.), and blows head gaskets. That second field failure is heat related so change the bulb kind of zero, and I mean, out of the crate, in the field, here are the failures, and one can be pointed to the squid's lever release to rpm.

So technical am I, lettuce pick (pun) the 14 and how many failures of both engine families? Since 2006, the field stamps a BULLETPROOF is in the... P for Pudding. P for Put that up against Honda or Mother Tea, and P for pick a year.

Stand that next to Porschengineering and what do you get? Wait for the techy part...

...

Signed,
Field Fixer

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I'm thinking crude has the right idea and go new.

What you have to weigh up is getting the balance right for you.
Lets say for examples sake that the new Porsche you want costs $100,000 which is your max budget.
Do you go new and spend that $100k up front with full warranty for complete peace of mind, or do you buy high quality second hand for say $80,000 and keep the $20k aside for potential issues that may never happen?
But new everyday of the week if you can afford it!
Unfortunately I cannot.
All comes down to how flush you are with the green folding stuff...

Go big or go broke?

It's a substantial investment.
Just don't forget the potential costs once that warranty expires or just for the plain straight services.
Call your local Porsche dealer and ask them what their hourly rates are and what you can expect to pay for minor and major services.
Just make sure you are sitting down when you do this.
And if you want the resale value to remain on your investment, that simple little authorised Porsche dealer stamp in your service book mean everything.

Sometimes there are extra advantages to alway using Porsche for any work done on the car.
Back when I had my 1990 Porsche S2 Cabriolet, one day I found milk in the radiator. Instantly I thought "Fuck, blown head gasket". So rather than pay the huge bucks at Porsche I started calling around local mechanic's (including a mates father in the game). I explained the problem and to a man they all said "head gasket replacement" and cost varied between $3000.00 - $5000.00 which back in those days was substantial. At that sort of money I thought might as well call Porsche, see what they charge and if it's at all reasonably close do it properly with the boys in the know.
First thing they said was "it may not be the head gasket but simply an oil cooler seal" which is a common issue on those models which could be repaired for around $400.00. I took the car in and sure enough oil cooler seal saving me shit loads. If I went with any of the non Porsche mechanics they would have changed the head gasket at great expense and the problem would have still been there!

Also one great advantages unlike other high performance sports cars like Ferrari's / Lamborghini's, is Porsche's are designed to be daily drivers.
Get into the car every day and drive it to your hearts content if you wish.
Unless you are a garage junkie, at the end of the day isn't that what it's all about???

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/2/2021 @ 1:10 PM *

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Well, the '08 is a thrasher. Paint was not taken care of. Plastic skirts are shaved down/burnt. Disc are way too dished for that kind of mileage, or it was pedal to the metal when he took it out. I'm out of this one.

Went to a dealer and found these on the lot.
2007 911 Carrera S, 56k miles for $55,888 US.
2002 911 (996) Turbo, 35k miles for $76,888 US.

On the floor was a 300k GT(?) and change... with stickers on the doors, and rear end that reads, 'King Kong.' Hardly worn discs.

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Went to a dealer and found these on the lot.
2007 911 Carrera S, 56k miles for $55,888 US.
2002 911 (996) Turbo, 35k miles for $76,888 US.

Here's where it gets involved Hub.

The 996 turbo would be considered more desirable by most because of the extra performance, engine that is not affected by the IMS / RMS issues, and wider body work. And just because its a turbo!
The 997 Carrera S (is it a 2S or 4S) was developed after the shortcomings and compromises of the 996 as a 911 should have been due to Porsche becoming financially viable again, has the later designed shape without the fried egg headlights, much improved interior / shape and technologies and so is considered a massive step forward from the 996.
There is absolutely no doubt you would always take a 997 Carrera over a 996 Carrera.
Trouble is you have the turbo on the 996 here to consider.

In a perfect 997 Carrera world, look for a Gen 2 version (2009-2012) because they had completely redesigned engines that are not affected by the IMS / RMS issues, gained the amazing PDK double clutch boxes, and had a redesigned and improved entertainment / GPS system.
But of course because they are more desirable they are harder to find and more expensive.
It's what I would like to upgrade to if the opportunity arose.

But just to throw a spanner into the works, there's more to consider.
The spec the car came in.

Is the 996 turbo leather or plastic interior?
Is it a X51 power kit version which is very sort after?
What spec does the 997 come in? Does it come with the chrono package or not? Bose stereo? If its a tiptronic auto does it have paddles on the side of the steering wheel or buttons on it for non stick shifts? Are the seats manual or electric settings? Sunroof?

On all Porsches there are 2 labels which explain exactly what that specific car comes with spec wise from the factory. One is in the maintenance books and one generally under the rear or front bonnet of the car.

There is a code explanation on the site I sent you earlier but here's the link.

Porsche Equipment Codes

Ask the dealer show you / to take a pic of these labels for you and you will know exactly what that particular car was built with.

Lastly one of the great advantages of buying any high performance sports car is that all have histories that can be checked. Look at the maintenance book in any Porsche you are considering and call the authorised dealer who did the work. They will know the full history of the car and be happy to talk to you. If work was not done by Porsche and you can find no history, be vary vary wary because either the owner, or worse still cheap "Dodgy Brothers" mechanics did the work and thats not good...

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/2/2021 @ 6:40 PM *

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Thanks, yanni. The Porsche dealer sales people are going to know me by name soon. I am overwhelmed with all the years/models/accessory codes. I need to read up. The Carson run is next and I'll sign up in a week or two.

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https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/the-classic-sale-at-silverstone-2021/2021-07-31

9,9,9,9,9,... it would take me 10 years to learn the models from 1962 on. Did I get the trivia year right? These are recent numbers, notice. I can't believe the numbers they are getting with old relic Porsches.

Shit, even the big bore two-stroke kawi's are averaging in the mid teens.

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I hit the over 250k and said, let's see if they have a Porsche in the lineup? Okay Mr. Model Designator, what engine family is this? This is entry level, yes?

https://www.housecoast.com/worldwide/car-mileage/53

Base begins at 60k? And same engine we add more HP?
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/718/718-models/718-cayman/

So the 90min session, I should add the Cayman and be real about it. My ass cheeks were not comfortable in that 2008. I kind of knew that going in. The gun shy pulling the trigger, I'm a little more confident this thing holds up like a Camry or pick a Honda car.

Opinion?

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nnnnaaahhhh

now u have to get the GT4 with PDK

Your a 911 man

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it would take me 10 years to learn the models from 1962 on. Did I get the trivia year right?

1963 as far as I am aware.

Okay Mr. Model Designator, what engine family is this?

Read away Hub

Porsche Cayman

Personally, I am a huge fan of the late model Cayman's. I saw a white 2018 version a while back at a coffee stop during a long drive and chatted with the owner.
I was most impressed what a beautiful, well spec'd and relatively affordable sports car it was.
I would be more than happy to own the right spec'd late model Cayman.
Maybe this is an option for you hub.
Porsche Cayman GT4?

But the simple reality as Crude is alluding to is it's just not a 911!

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/6/2021 @ 1:55 AM *

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Go to the bottom of the article for the spec sheet. Read the C/D test results. Blows the vette away pretty much.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a33825844/2020-chevy-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4/
That cayman is more a real world wallet. I just can see blowing 3 vettes for one 911.

You mean the dream machine? In my dreams is that 4 hours worth of reality.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo-models/911-turbo-s/

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And Hub, that $207,000 is for the base model only!
Things like the ceramic brakes shown in the pic are extra costed options.

The joy's of buying new...

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3 engine families. Got it.

I'm having second thoughts. When it cools down I'll ride to the center and ask about that 50 dollar insurance policy. I read a few Yelp comments and one funny one said they want you to damage the car in so many words. Now, if I flip the car and walk away for 50 bucks, I'm in. But if the deductible ends at 10 thousand bucks... pass thanks. Another yelper said he flew off some wet pad and ruined a front wheel rim. Cost him 10 large. So I'll assume he had the $50 policy.

Now I'm thinking take that kind of money and start collecting said engine family OEM replacement parts.

Every 64373km... Piece of cake Allens says it all. 'That was way too easy'... you and me both. Bring on the used. Ah, neighbor's Porsche was outside. Clean puppy. Whatever was wrong with it he figured it out.
I'd be all over that back seat, yanni, looking for the never ending cracks on the serpentine belt. Hit Tony's name and his take on the water pump and thermo change-out. Another simple fix on the service sweep. If there was any car that falls into the camp of, 'fix it before it breaks' it's a Porsche.

Bolted up steel I-beams, an electric wench, ramp clamps that step up and not drag the frame because the floor jack can go so high. Crossed legs almost if not a creeper. Beats sliding on the floor with my back. It's in my head how to work the bottom and change out the bearing/clutch.

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BTW, only eat once a day now. Letting the fat starve so it eats itself. Lost 10. All for that fucking seat fit.

Signed,
Dead Serious

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/16/2021 @ 1:47 PM *

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